Frazier(1971) vs Holmes(1979)

I don't see why Larry wouldn't win. He's taken bigger men with better left hooks.

 

Sorry this is too tight for me to call.
Both these guys are huge favorites of mine & its just too close to call.

 

Holmes would win. I have this discussion as a spin off of the Ali vs Frazier matches. One thing to consider is Ali was a sucker for left hooks, and seemed to get caught on the ropes.

Holmes wasn’t nailed often with hooks, and was hardly ever caught on the ropes.

 

I have to go with the "Holmes hammer" over Joe's hook.

 

Nice succinct post!

 

Better? Harder maybe, but better? Get off the grass man. Frazier had one of the best left hooks ever swung in anger. The line up of better left hooks than Frazier's in heavyweight history is decidedly short.

 

The problem that I often have picking Holmes in these fantasy match ups is that he never really managed the transition to A grade oponents. He beat them but he always strugled with them.

He dose not have the signiture dominant wins over his best opponents that other all time greats have.

This leads me to question whether he realy could have handeled a guy of the calibre of Frazier.

 

The same could be said of Dempsey and Tyson, though.

 

I don't think that it can.

They both strugled against some of their A grade oponents and they both dominated some. Tyson especialy makes a good comparison because he was dominating many of the fighters that Holmes strugled with or failed to fight.

Now don't get me wrong Holmes might be able to beat othe ATGs like Dempsey, Frazier and Tyson but I didn't quite see enough against his best oponents to make me comfortable calling it.

 

I strongly disagree. Tyson proved he struggled when the opposition got better

But yeah, he burnt out. Facts are tho that it just happened to be when the comp hotted up so argument can be made both ways. I thought he was firing on near all cylinders when Holyfield debunked him.

 

My point is that Dempsey's best win is Sharkey, whom he knocked out in controversial manner when behind on points. Is Sharkey really a step above Witherspoon? So how confident can we be that Dempsey still does well against an all time great fighter?

I always thought Tyson looked good against Holyfield. Much better than he did against Douglas. His handspeed was phenomenal, he threw many punches and he started ferocious like he always did... of course, Holyfield sort of took that away, especially since that knockdown in the 6th.
I think it's all Rooney's fault, though.

 

I wasn't thinking of Dempsey of course.

I agree. Everyone was on the Tyson bandwagon again, fans were telling us he was as fearsome as he'd ever been and was going to dominate the division again now he'd found his way. He was a reformed man! The oddsmakers supported the notion strongly. Tyson was Tyson again. How soon they forget. Now all we here is excuses. He ranks with Duran as the most excused (he wasn't motivated or in shape x 7, he needed a poo, yada yada) fighter in modern history. Holyfield met Tyson head on and didn't wilt. Tyson however did. One of my fave fights ever. A battle of wills. Holyfield's chin and spirit are incredible in this one. The effort from him is inspirational. I have no doubt Tyson would have beaten plenty of top 15 Heavyweights that night.

 

I see your point Janitor and it is a valid one. I will add, though, that he did have a tendency to fight down to the level of his opposition now and then, and he did dominate Cooney and knock out Smith, something Tyson didn't do.

I think he ties James Toney in number of excuses gotten.

But yeah, Tyson fans are really something. I remember that after Lewis beat the **** out of him, some were saying "Rematch! rematch! This time the real Tyson will show up and knock Lewis out!".