None of them have strong resumes. Fury's is still better though . At least 39 year old Wlad proved something in his prime. None of the pensioners Wilder fought ever did anything of note. Also Wlad was the champ so you went to him if you wanted the belt. Wilder was the champ , he just for some unknown reason favored fighting decrepit old men with heart conditions.
Based on what, exactly? Ortiz best win is Jennings, and Jennings didn't exactly turn up desperate to win... Ortiz is a massively overhyped boogieman, invented by the WBC and Wilder's fanbois to try and help his poor resume - only problem is, Ortiz ain't done anything special and won't fight anyone decent. Fraud recognises fraud.
Exactly. I suspect Wilder is a bit better than his resume paints - but that doesn't change that if you looked at resume alone you'd struggle to put him above gatekeeper level, that resume is shockingly thin. And that long title run makes it WORSE! When you have a belt, everyone wants a piece of you to take it, you can make great fights easily... When you choose not to, it says a lot about you.
There's only so many "great" fights he could have made, tbh, as the division is and has been rubbish. In fact, maybe zero great ones. He could have certainly done better than he did, though. He could have produced at least more than a small handful of "good" ones.
Of course you're right - but a poor resume for a poor era is obviously especially embarrassing in broader terms. If you're not even going to fight legit contenders in your own era until a cherrypick backfires on you, there's something badly wrong. Thing is, I suspect Wilders problem is he was happy being able to pretend he was the best - he never cared about actually being the best or he'd have taken harder fights, he never cared about proving it or he would've taken harder fights.
Well, he was told early and often what an overachiever he was in the amateurs - that he shouldn't even have made the Olympic squad, let alone gotten a bronze medal, as he was so lacking in high-level international experience and was 'learning on the job', and he probably began to believe his own hype as somebody that could just smash the competition on the pure basis of self-belief and having the proper motivation (like his sick daughter, which is what drove him to reach the Olympics, which is why I was a pretty big fan of his in the amateurs when I first heard of him) ...problem is, once he turned pro, there was a need to refine his skill-set, and he still bought into the whole "my power is plenty, it got me bronze, and it'll get me a championship (which unfortunately proved right, thanks to a very specific set of circumstances unfolding, and of course the last-gasp death-rattle of Don King leaving the last traces of his stink on the sport & division...), so I don't gotta do nothing.." - but at the same time, he must have still had a bit of impostor syndrome for all that, and known that if he was ever put in with anybody he was unable to kayo in the allotted time, he was screwed. Hence the very careful matchmaking - and the lack of progression in his craft.
I completely agree here. At the end of the day you can only fight those available in your era, but Wilder chose not to even do that. W. Klitschko, who many say was in a weak era still won 13 championship fights against universally regarded top 10 opponents. Baring his brother (for obvious reasons) he generally fought the best available. Wilder reigns from January 2015 to February 2020. That's 5 years. He managed 3 (Stiverne 1, Ortiz 1 and 2) Let's put aside Wilder didn't unify in a "Great" fight, there were so many "good" fights he didn't take. He used voluntary after voluntary to take the easiest touch in the WBC top 15 time after time. Here are good fighters that were ranked in the WBC top 15 during his reign: In/From 2015: Povetkin, Joshua, This content is protected , Pulev, Takam, Parker, Ruiz Jr., Jennings*, Browne*, Glazkov* In/From 2016: Whyte, Chisora, Miller* In/From 2017: This content is protected This content is protected , Martin*, In/From 2018: Kabayel, Rivas, Kownacki* In/From 2019: This content is protected , Joyce, Yoka* I've put an * on the names that are borderline. That's a pretty depressing 5 year reign for the holder of the prestigious green belt
And "good" is stretching it pretty charitably there in the case of Stiverne (the very model of a modern paper titlist, really not any better than Charles Martin truthfully) and Breazeale.
I love the counter argument of look at Fury’s record. Yes Fury resume is weak too, but thread isnt about Fury. It is about Wilder. We aren’t talking about his natural gift but his very weak resume. If you think it’s not then back it up with something.
Yeah, love when people assume that'll get a rise out of anyone criticizing Wilder's, as though all boxing fans on earth must be slotted into either of two camps: fanboy of Wilder, or Fury. Leaving aside there are plenty of us that don't care for either (nor does that mean the remainder of us necessarily have any time for AJ, for that matter)
Well to be fair to Wilder, in fight one Stiverne was seen as a borderline top 5 fighter. I think it is harsh to put him in the same bracket as Martin. haha But yeah the entity named "Stiverne" that entered the ring for the second fight, is below Martin.
