What flaws did Cooney show on film against Young, Lyle, & Norton that predicted his loss to Holmes?

To beat Larry, Cooney had to show something he had not shown before, he had to show he had the maturity and the heart to go with the power and ability we saw against Young and Norton. He had to show he was not a hype job. He also had to show he could compete at long range too, because the early blow outs of Lyle and Norton showed Gerry exclusively operating at close range.

So I think Cooney did show these things losing to Holmes. I really think only Holmes’s experience beat him. Larry purposefully sat back to expend Gerry in the early rounds. Larry fought a very cautious and patient fight because he was experienced enough to do it right. He was not taking chances.

In the same way that Ray Mancini showed us something even though he did not get past Alexis Arguello Cooney showed us something losing to Holmes. He showed, that if he wanted to, it was all there at that level. He just needed more experience.

 

The biggest clue was that he was not fighting men ranked in the top ten.

If he was capable of beating Holmes, then it would have been in his interests to get him some tougher fights, before putting him in with Holmes.

So that was a big red flag right there.

 

Tougher fights? vs whom? He needed to stay active as was ranked #1 in the world. When you ranked #1 you fight the champ. The fight with Holmes was competitive for about 8 rounds, Cooney nearly had Holmes in trouble in round 4, but the bell rang.

 

Somebody who was relevant in the division at the time.

Perhaps a Weaver or a Berbick?

Somebody who could provide a serious test, and make no mistake, Cooney needed a test.

There are easy routes to being ranked #1, and there are hard routes to being ranked #1.

You take an easy route, if you are not confident in the ability of your fighter, to beat the other contenders of the day.

If you are confident that they can beat the the contenders, then you are not doing them any favors, by matching them against men ranked outside the top ten.

There is an easy route to being ranked #1, but there is no easy route to beating the champion.

 

I think Berbick or Snipes would have been perfect. Cobb would give Cooney a lot of rounds too.

 

Cobb would have been perfect. Lower risk, durable, not a puncher. The other two choice are medium risk low reward. Still the money fight was Holmes and Cooney was already #1. If by chance Cooney looses there goes their gravy train.

 

Finally, a fair assessment of Cooney. I've said Cooney had the ability and showed it in the Holmes fight many times. Unfortunately he didn't possess the will to get back into the fire after his 1st Loss, learn from it, and become a better fighter. His choice was to feel sorry for himself, get into drugs and alcohol for comfort.

 

There also goes Cooney’s gravy train.

Yes they could have matched him tougher. But if they did and he lost to someone they wanted to test him with — say Snipes or Berbick or Cobb or whoever — they’re taking a guy who might literally be worth hundreds of millions of dollars in his career if he wins the title and has successful defenses … and making him just a guy. A Cooney with a loss or two on his record simply isn’t going to be splitting $20M+ with Holmes, and he’d also have to rebuild from that loss and maybe loses again and he doesn’t even ever get a shot.

That’s reality.

They also tried to make several fights with him that fell through, including vs. Mike Weaver — but the WBA decided to strip him if he didn’t fight James Tillis instead. That would have, if Gerry won, given him a belt and put him in a unification with Larry that maybe meant both of them getting $20M+ instead of splitting it.

There were also some fights that didn’t happen because Gerry got injured in training, or at least that was the excuse. I wonder, knowing now about Gerry’s demons, if they didn’t have a guy who was regularly going on benders with alcohol and coke and they were pulling him out of fights because they knew he was in no shape to compete. It’s certainly a possibility, in which case they’d have been looking out for his best interests by canceling/avoiding those fights. The night Cobb fought Earnie Shavers, it was supposed to be Cooney-Shavers but he pulled out. There were other fights that didn’t come off because of Cooney’s ‘training injuries’ too.

Would a 26-2 Cooney with more seasoning but a couple of losses be better prepared to fight Holmes? Maybe. But he’d be worth a lot less, maybe wouldn’t even get the Holmes fight and also maybe his flaws would have been so well known that he’d have been an easier fight — Gerry’s confidence was pretty fragile, and a loss or two may have sent him down into the gutter with his drinking and drugging (so maybe he loses a bunch more), or maybe just given everyone a game plan to emulate.

All this ‘they should have matched him tougher’ presumes he WINS those fights (not a given) and grows from them. But that’s a roll of the dice someone staring at tens and maybe even hundreds of millions of dollars for themselves AND their fighter maybe chooses not to make.

 

I don't think Cooney showed any weaknesses in those fights he looked fast, mean and brutal in those fights....if he showed weaknesses for a Holmes stylist type it was against ST Gordon and possibly Young but for the most part he was a legitimate and dangerous opponent and Holmes fought a perfect fight taking him into deep waters and NTW Holmes was losing at the time of the stoppage.

 

Cooney's manager wanted the old Ali. A winnable fight. It didn't materialize.

 

That would have been tragic

 

Very well said. Cooney needed experience - a few fights that went the distance and gave him more rounds. His record was similar to that of young George Foreman in that it was filled with a lot of knockouts after only a couple rounds. But yes, iin the Holmes fight he did show that he could go into the later rounds and was doing well, making a competitive fight until the stoppage.

 

I know, Ali thankfully did not want the fight. By 1982 he would have been in danger info a knock out.

 

The answer to this is simple and concise.

None. He simply didn't fight live enough opposition for us to get enough of a grasp on what he lacked.

The flaw was more in his preparation. Tho Pat is correct (I've mentioned it many times myself) that tougher opposition would have may have lost him all those dollars they were exactly what was needed so he could gain the extra experience and ability to take Holmes deeper. He also did not fight for too long of a period going into the bout. Interestingly I've seen him opine that he should have went all out for the KO early on as he had in other fights. His chances would have been a little better but he also would have been stopped sooner i reckon.

The fact is that if Cooney had what it takes he would have come back from that loss and reasserted himself at the top of the division. Instead he went the other way. He didn't have what it took to beat Holmes any which way IMO.