What flaws did Cooney show on film against Young, Lyle, & Norton that predicted his loss to Holmes?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Oct 25, 2021.


  1. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Precisely. Cooney should have got back on course like Ray Mancini did after his first failed attempt to win a title. Even if it meant going with Don King. But he already had a champions wealth. That’s what ruined him. His purse was far too big for Larry. Took away the incentive. By comparison, His next fight would be for peanuts. So the desire was gone. Mountain too high. Reward too small.

    His rivals netted tiny amounts from smaller purses. They all wound up broke. But at least it kept them switched on and wanting to fight when they were in their primes.

    like you say, Cooney had the ability. I was very impressed with Gerry’s long range skills in that fight, the ability to get off the floor..it was all there.

    But it’s always a bad situation for a challenger when the champion has been more active than the challenger has. It never ends well. That cost him more than anything.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
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  2. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Very true.
     
  3. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Zero head movement.
     
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  4. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    All interesting observations.
    One thing though that nobody mentions: was he not always more or less a one armed fighter?
    Certain things are almost inevitable that certain styles will lack.
    Fighting backwards well if not a boxer type.
    Head movement is likely to be much less for a slugger.
    A short fighter will be lucky to deploy a decent jab like Tyson, he will not be an outfighter.

    But compare him to Frazier: who really did use his right hand much more often, a high volume fighter, even though overwhelmingly setting up the left hook.
    If Cooney had a much more active right & it as a big threat, that could be a game changer.

    But also everyone is right about his lack of toughness.
    Nice guy, but not able to fight his demons despite-or through-discipline in the ring.
     
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  5. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    his footwork. his defense. bring his hands back after punching. Stop leaning in with all that weight way over that front foot. Upper body movement and his hips.
     
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  6. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Using two hands, That was one thing we needed to see in the Holmes fight, …and he did use both against Larry. In fact Cooney did show he could use his right hand well in the Holmes fight.

    Those early blow outs against Lyle and Norton, Gerry found a home for his hook and doubled up on it..but there was so much time between the Holmes and Young fights that you needed to see that Cooney hadn’t just fell in love with his left hook the way Ruddock later would.

    And he really hadn’t. If the opening was there Gerry was always going to take it and throw loads of left hooks.. but he was a two handed fighter against Larry. It was surprising.

    Cooney boxed well. He just was nowhere near being a good15 round fighter yet against a guy who had done it before.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
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  7. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    OK thank you choklab. You tend to know these details really well, & better than I do.
    One very notable thing is that although Foreman was retired for a whole decade, had to lose a lot of weight, & was still heavy, he looked better, more fit, & had much more muscle than Cooney did.

    Who knows how good Cooney-or many fighters-could have been with maximum motivation, training efficiency, & coaching.
    All the racism around him was unfortunate, I recall all those white Hollywood stars favoring him for no cause other than color.
    Reagan had a phone line into only Cooney's dressing room. None of this was his fault.

    Now what was the name of that show & star-later died young of cancer-where he lost a fight-for the only time-on the docks I believe to a character who was actually the jab-happy Gerry Cooney?
     
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  8. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Interesting that people say ‘they should have gotten him some fights that would have given him more rounds.’

    What do you think they were trying to do with the Jimmy Young fight? The only person to stop him other than Cooney (on a cut btw) was Earnie Shavers, and Earnie failed to do so when they rematched.

    He fought Eddie Lopez (only loss to that point was majority decision to Olympian and future world champ John Tate) and a couple other guys who took him the distance or into the final round in 8-rounders.

    Realistically Norton was a fading but still viable opponent having beaten Tex Cobb, although they had to feel they could get the early stoppage if Gerry pressed the issue. Lyle was fodder for an early KO and inconsequential except in giving Cooney a name people recognized on the resume.

    Apart from signing his life away to Don King, the choices of guys who could have given Gerry a competitive 10-rounder weren’t terribly plentiful, although there were guys who could have been good candidates.

    But if you don’t think they were trying to get him rounds in putting him in with Jimmy Young, I don’t know what to tell you. Thing is, when he did stop Young if you’re calling the shots and your guy is ranked No. 1 and there’s $10M or more on the table … do you really say ‘nope, we need more seasoning’ and risk your guy getting taken out, upset by decision, losing on a cut, whatever — and losing that payday? Not just for you, but for your fighter? I don’t think so.
     
  9. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I did read that Cooney appeared in a 1986 episode “Spencer for Hire”. The star of the show did die of cancer so that might be the one you mean. Was he any good in it?

    Ken Norton showed up on The A team and he totally sucked as a angry convict. Larry appeared (as himself) on the Fall Guy. So there was a lot of it going on back then.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
  10. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    His lack of head movement was going to pose problems, as well as being open for counter rights all the time, a prime weapon for Holmes.
     
  11. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Lack of head movement didn’t do Wilder any harm in this era. Those long limbed guys can get away with it.
     
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  12. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    He didn't show stamina over the course of a long fight. Ring pace, experience vs a good contender. Holmes had a PHD in boxing. He came up forged in combat.
    Cooney gave a pretty decent account of himself. It's how he took the loss mentality that was sad.
     
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  13. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Agree. I do think with better managers he may have handled the moment better. If my manager is turning down every live body they offer to fight me that can't be good for confidence. They took the short cut because they could but it didn't make Cooney as good as he could have been.
     
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  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I think Cooneys people definitely had a potential champion on their hands. But they steered his career like you would run a business. It was from a position of privilege. They had access to the navigational methods that other outfits could not afford. In making the most money for their fighter you could argue they did a good job. And more established outfits would have done exactly the same thing had they been able to steer their fighters that way.

    The problem is, the wheels came off the career because Cooney was inactive and lacked seasoning.

    If you take the team of experts that steered Mike Tyson, who had exactly the same privileges as Cooney got, the only difference between the two “projects” really is the activity of the fighters on their run to the title. Tysons wheels came off a little later down the road, but Tyson was more prepared by the time he got to the title because he was more active.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021
  15. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    That is it! Yes he was fine-mainly I recall he was a silent big man keeping Spencer at the end of & knocked down from the long jab. It was billed as the only time Robert Urich lost a fight (on his show lol!)
     
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