What flaws did Cooney show on film against Young, Lyle, & Norton that predicted his loss to Holmes?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Oct 25, 2021.

  1. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    You gotta love 1980s TV shows for cameo appearances of boxers!
    I will have to look out for that!
     
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  2. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It’s Spenser, with an S, like the poet — as he’s fond of saying in the detective book series by Robert Parker that the show is based upon.

    And the character in the books (the series started in the 1970s and, well, it’s still going with an author or authors to keep the franchise going after Parker’s death) is depicted as a former Boston heavyweight who got stopped early by Joe Walcott. It casually comes up and he’ll mention that he was good but he learned the gap between good and great in that fight.

    Henry Cimino, another character, was stopped in one by Willie Pep. He operates a gym (boxing gym at first but then he goes upscale with gentrification and works out yuppies with all the modern, non-boxing, equipment but keeps a side room with a heavy bag and speed bag and such for Spenser and his cohort Hawk — Hawk and Spenser first encountered each other when they fought to a draw that both still contend that they won).

    I love the Spenser novels. The series was pretty good too, and Avery Brooks as Hawk was perfect casting.
     
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  3. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I thought his footwork didn't allow him to get in position enough to get at a man who could move like Holmes. He needed to cut the ring off more. But , in general he didn't have the tools to beat Larry. Also his corner was telling him to box,,with Larry Holmes? His only chance was a KO he was never going 15 with Larry and getting a decision.
     
  4. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    None. At the time, most of the public thought Cooney would win. (Gamblers didn't. But the general public did, and most of them weren't gamblers.)

    Cooney was dominant. Cooney knocked out Norton in 55 seconds. Holmes fought him to a 15-round split decision.

    Holmes fought the unranked, unknown Weaver and nearly lost. Holmes fought Shavers and was nearly KOed. Holmes fought Snipes in his tuneup to Cooney and was crushed by that Snipes right hand. If not for the corner post Holmes crashed into, he would've fallen multiple times from one punch (like Berbick against Tyson).

    Cooney was on the rise. Holmes didn't seem as good as he used to be. People said he no longer had legs. Couldn't dance for 15 rounds like he did with Norton.

    Time Magazine and Sports Illustrated even had Cooney on their covers the week of the fight.
    https://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1982/1101820614_400.jpg
    https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/GoAAAMXQQSFRi8Hl/s-l1600.jpg

    But Holmes dominated and won. It was one of Larry's greatest performances.

    Afterward, people got hyper critical of Cooney. Pointed out all the flaws. But you didn't hear much about them at all leading up to the fight.

    Just a lot of black voices saying Cooney was only getting this shot because of his skin color. But not many saying Cooney would lose. Because Holmes seemed vulnerable to everyone ... until he didn't. ;)

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    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021
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  5. Barrf

    Barrf Boxing Addict Full Member

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    His teams fight plan was for him to outbox Larry?

    Not a great plan.
     
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  6. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Wasn't it even -- albeit confusingly so -- at the time of the stoppage?
     
  7. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    And Holmes strictly moved clockwise. Always did. But the cooney size advantage and slow feet never could catch him much. Especially when Larry flicked the jab while moving his feet. But Holmes could not sustain it as long as he could in the late 70's.

    Even more interesting was the mike spinks fight for Gerry. Spinks moved clockwise and counterclockwise. And Cooney would follow and with that size advantage still could not cut off the ring. And just how many punches did spinks miss when moving counterclockwise on the guy?
     
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  8. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Yes you are right about that.
     
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  9. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    If you take the team of experts that steered Mike Tyson, who had exactly the same privileges as Cooney got, the only difference between the two “projects” really is the activity of mike and Gerry on their run to the title. Tysons wheels came off a little later down the road, but Tyson was more prepared by the time he got to the title because he was more active.
     
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