Ron Lyle vs Max Baer

Meant to say Lyle, I wasn't paying attention.

 

Lyle got stopped by Foreman who had almost a 2 years break after Ali loss. Sure, he showed plenty of heart and punching power in that fight. He also showed poor defense and lack of any composure once he got hurt. Baer was a harder puncher with stronger chin than Lyle - Ron wouldn't be able to beat him the way he tried to beat Foreman.

 

Foreman had his limitations. The fight would have panned out the same regardless of when they fought.

Those things would not matter against a limited old timer like Baer.

Baer was none of those things. Lyle's chin is twice as good. Baer got beat up by a bum like Braddock, ffs.

 

Then Lyle showed that he had even more limitations. Limitations that wouldn't help him against Baer.

It mattered against limited old timer from the 1970s.

Now this is simply stupid. We have enough footage available of Baer taking clean power punches from strong punchers without any concern. Baer's chin was absolutely ridiculous. Lyle got dropped and stopped far more times than Baer and Max faced a lot of powerful punchers and big guys.

He didn't get beat up by Braddock, Jim outboxed him in a slow, lazy contest. Baer fought with injured hand and showed no sign of interest to win the fight. He was never hurt in that fight though.

 

Foreman is not an old timer.

Which big punchers might those be ?!
There's no one that Baer fought who could hit as hard as Foreman.
The first flush punch Foreman would land, would take Baer out.

It does not matter how Braddock fought, if he could beat him, than Lyle definitely does.

 

He peaked almost 50 years ago - he definitely is an old timer.

Joe Louis
Max Schmeling
Bearcat Wright
Hank Hankinson
Tony Galento
Lou Nova
Walter Cobb
Pat Comiskey

to name a few.

Louis has a case, but it doesn't matter - Lyle got stopped by Foreman and didn't take George's punches well at all.

That's highly unlikely given:

- how well Baer took Louis punches,
- how many punches Foreman usually needed to stop durable fighters.

This doesn't make any sense...

 

No he is not.
By old timer I mean from the 1800s to the 1930s.

None of those men are among the top 10 biggest punchers.

Louis has no case whatsoever. Foreman clearly hits harder. Louis is just more accurate.

Louis did not hit as hard as Foreman, so Baer taking his punches is irrelevant.

It makes perfect sense. Baer got beat by a bum, so it's only logical he will have trouble with someone far superior to that bum.

 

Excellent fight. Not confident picking anyone. Crowd would probably get its money’s worth

 

So we all have to stick to your completely arbitrary definition?

Any punchers list without Joe Louis is worthless.

Again, based on what? And if Louis was more accurate, it makes Baer's chin even more impressive.

Lyle didn't hit as hard as either Louis or Foreman, so it's irrelevant in this thread by your logic.

Ron Lyle got beaten by Lynn Ball, old Quarry and Jim Young and you're trying to knock Baer for Braddock loss?

 

No, I just what explained what the term "old timer" means to me.

Why would that be ?
I was just talking about punching power, nothing else.

IMO Lyle hit harder than Louis.

Quarry and Young are far superior to Braddock.

 

No puncher at HW was more proven than Louis. No puncher at HW has better combination of punching power, skill and repertoire. Louis punching power looks terrifying on the tape.

What's the reason to keep him out of the conversation - black and white footage?

That's... an opinion I guess. What durable fighter did Lyle ever stop?

I mean, if you think that everybody sucked back in the 1930s then there is no point to discuss it any further.

 

I'd really like to know who Lyle stopped to consider him a better puncher than Joe Louis... or even Max Baer.

 

Then you would have to ask, why Lyle was not beating more world class men.

Sure Baer had his off days, but his resume doesn't hang on losing efforts, where he looked good in losing.

I am genuinely curious to know why you would conclude that Baer was inferior?

 

Was Baer knocked out or floored by Braddock? If not it's irrelevant to the chin discussion.

 

I was just talking about punching power, the rest of the things you mentioned don't matter to me, at least not in the context of our debate.

No. The fact that he ain't punching hard enough to be top 10.

He doesn't need to stop anyone. His fight with Foreman shows you all you need to see.

No, I don't think everybody sucked, they some that were good, but not as good as modern ATGs.