Explaining why old boxers make basic mistakes

Some boxers fight with their hands down. I do not see it as an era thing.

 

Holding your hands high is not going to save you from getting your head snapped back all night from a superior boxer.
If defense was holding your hands up around your head, it would be easy.

 

The whole mindset was different. Blocking punches was considered a last resort, and that makes a lot of sense because, if I am using my hands to block your punches, what am I going to hit you with? For many years it was said that no good fighter fought with his hands up.
The emphasis was on drawing leads, slipping and then countering.
Most of the 'evolution' in boxing has been a result of equipment changes. Bigger gloves allowed the form of 'defense' where you put your hands up and hope that the other guy isn't smart enough to hit you instead of your gloves. The old style of draw and counter is much more deliberate.
In modern gyms instruction on the subject of defense is generally limited to things like 'keep your hands' and 'move your head.' And defensive acumen, like punching power, is put into the category of "natural ability", you either have it or you don't, because it isn't easy to teach.
The idea that the old time guys repeatedly got punched in the face and were just too stupid to pick their hands up is ignorant and very possibly the most foolish thing ever on this forum. Though it does kind of exactly define Ali's relationship with left hooks, doesn't it?

 

Ali did not knew how to block them, that's why he kept eating them

 

Ambers began as a Canzoneri sparring partner.

 

wasnt the breakdown you asking why they did what they did I gave you the answer it's all they knew the mistakes you said they didnt see or know it was wrong

they didnt have much video back then to know what was wrong or right I thought you understood that without me going into detail

 

I was out for a while. When I came back I came directly back into this thread, hoping for another good laugh (which I needed). I wasn't disappointed!

 

Every reputable gym in the history of boxing starts with the basics of keeping the chin

low, behind the lead hand shoulder, keep the guard high, open the door with the jab, step in the door with the right hand, close the door with the hook for a better defensive position, that's been taught since the Queensbury rules were established .
As a fighter progresses and finds what is comfortable for them, that's when the style changes began. What was great about old school trainers they were smart enough to see what a fighter did best, and worked on that attribute. They didn't try to make Foreman fight like Ali, it wouldn't have worked for him.
Unlike so many fighters today that try to fight like Mayweather Jr, and their trainers because of their limitations in understanding what may work for one probably won't work for someone else go with it because of their lack of knowledge in understanding that everyone can't fight like May Jr.
Broner is a prime example of that.
What is seen by many "newcomers " as flaws in old time training is actually the fighters, based on what actually worked for them from 1000's of sparring sessions in the gym, discovering what actually worked best for them , and having trainers smart enough, and experienced enough to not try to make Tony Zale fight like R.Robinson so they could get the maximum benefits from what they are capable of doing.
If anything, boxing has regressed the last 20yrs or so because of this very fact.
Theirs is no way any reasonable person ( key word, Reasonable) can honestly think someone like Crawford would have much of a chance against Robinson or even Turpin or Lomatta simply because he doesn't spend the time in the ring, and because of that, the hours of sparring, in the gym , learning what works for them best that Turpin or Lomatta MUST have spent to learn what works best for them.
So if anything boxing has regressed the last 20-30 yrs. It's the reason someone like Wilder who doesn't know how to use a jab properly, and telegraphed almost every punch he uses can become a World Champ in today's boxing game.
Or someone like Lomo, with less than 20 pro fights with 2 of those losses could be seen by some as great because he won titles at multiple weight classes. Something that would have been laughed at 30, 40, 50, yrs ago and beyond.
If anything boxing has become a poster child of what mass media , internet , etc can create by people who really don't understand the intricacies of the art, but because of that media reach , can create.
The fight game has regressed, years ago, know one would have heard of the Paul Brothers and they wouldn't be millionaires because of it .
Mayweather Jr wouldn't have been able to avoid the biggest threats to his championship and maneuver around them ...

 

well yea but I like I said they didnt know any other way to fight

 

You saying Brendan Ingle didn’t run a respectable gym?

(I always love that quote, can’t remember to whom it is attributed, that Brendan Ingle’s fighters even walked to the gym backwards.)

Seriously, there are many ways to coach and teach boxing. Fundamentals have been established but evolution comes from innovations to either improve upon them or ignore them for a different way.

Cus D’Amato taught the peek-a-boo style. Archie Moore fought cross-armed. Dempsey and Frazier bobbed and weaved. The Philly shell is, in the tide of time, a relatively recent innovation that has caught on.

You see different defensive alignments and offensive schemes in football and basketball and soccer, shifts in baseball, etc.

Had a friend who was a highly successful college women’s basketball coach (took a team to the Final Four). He once went to a coaching clinic in Germany where a translator relayed his talk to the assembled coaches there to learn. He drew up several different approaches to the same goal that he used — different ways to set up easy shots (he wrote a book on inbounds plays that is still in vogue). Then he said, ‘There’s more than one way to skin a cat.’

The translator translated. And every hand went up with every attendee jabbering questions at once. He didn’t know what started the uproar.

The translator told him that the coaches wanted to know why he would skin a cat and what that had to do with winning basketball games.

 

I think cause of being so comfortable fighting the way they was used to im talking on the 20s-40s
ali era fixed alot of those bad flaws