Matt Skelton v Dillian Whyte

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Unforgiven, Nov 2, 2021.


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  1. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I am not trying to award Hughie a win over Povetkin.
    You know exactly what I am saying.
    Like for like, Hughie did better. We do not know how he would do on aggregate because he did not get 2nd attempt.

    Oscar Rivas has "no wins at world level" and hardly any wins against anyone worth hearing of. Is he proven world level?

    Parker/Hughie/Whyte/Chisora .... can't you see the difference between having a win or a loss is fairly arbitrary in such fights because of debatable decisions?
    In debatable fights it is fair to say the fighters are sbout the same level.
    In 2017-18, whether we like it or not, Parker and Hughie and Whyte were about same level.
     
    Unforgiven, Nov 3, 2021
    Unforgiven, Nov 3, 2021
    #121
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, so we know that Hughie is 0-1 with Povetkin - no win of that class for him - and Whyte is 1-1 with Povetekin - a win of that class. Even if you dispute what that class is, that's true, matters and seems to be something you want to routinely ignore.

    Once again you have answered questions with a question, and it's tiresome in the extreme.

    No, i don't think of Rivas as world-class. But that's not what I said, is it? What I'll say is this - if Skelton had beaten Rivas it would be his best win by some distance, probably. Same for Hughie.

    More answering questions with questions.

    I absolutely reject this - it's ridiculous. When a fighter does fighting and is in a close fight that can be reasonably scored for him, that is absolutely in no way "arbitrary". Nonsense.

    Whyte earned those close wins. They are in no way unreasonably assigned to him. If someone consistently wins close decisions against good opposition he is doing something right, not wrong, and the results certainly aren't arbitrary.

    You've included Chisora here which is incredible. Whyte holds a clear cut, destructive win over Chisroa.

    Bizarre stuff.

    And now Whyte is clearly to be ranked ahead of him by any and all objective system of ranking fighters. That's why it is the case.

    I'd ask you some questions here, but really, what is the point?

    Oops :lol:
     
    McGrain, Nov 3, 2021
    McGrain, Nov 3, 2021
    #122
  3. Cookiedough

    Cookiedough Active Member Full Member

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    Definitely a fun fight. Skelton has a strong Muay Thai, martial arts background. Those fighters from the Muay Thai, martial arts background are extremely tough. Carl Thompson is another one. Carl was an awesome fighter imo. He didn’t beat everyone but boy could that man fight.
     
    Cookiedough, Nov 3, 2021
    Cookiedough, Nov 3, 2021
    #123
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, I agree with that. Muay Thai and Lethwei guys, or old-school Lethwei guys, they are the toughest men of all that kickboxing mob.
     
    McGrain, Nov 3, 2021
    McGrain, Nov 3, 2021
    #124
  5. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    You do not seem to recognize the difference between ability/quality and ranking.
     
    Unforgiven, Nov 3, 2021
    Unforgiven, Nov 3, 2021
    #125
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Whyte literally got a win instead of a draw against Parker because a referee ruled a headbutt a knockdown.
    If that is not arbitrary, what is??
     
    Unforgiven, Nov 3, 2021
    Unforgiven, Nov 3, 2021
    #126
  7. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Chisora has a disputed "could go either way" loss to Whyte AND one to Parker.
    That is why he is included.
    Not bizarre at all.

    "bizarre", "silly", these seem to be the go-to words, and ad hominem arguments about me personally being "wrong" on something in the past, seems to be the tone throughout this thread. And purposely misunderstanding the points.
     
    Unforgiven, Nov 3, 2021
    Unforgiven, Nov 3, 2021
    #127
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I'll take you at your word that you feel that way and are not being disingenuous, but it is astonishing to me that you really believe that based upon what I have written in this thread. I explicitly stated that Whyte wouldn't beat Skelton because Skelton had never beaten a ranked fighter but because he was better than him. I actually wrote those words.

    I even listed high level technical and physical reasons why this was the case. You ignored these remarks in favour of furthering debate about rankings while simultaneously protesting that you didn't want to debate ranking.

    Again, either through carelessness or wilful ignorance, you are misrepresenting what I said.

    I explicitly stated that what was bizarre was that you listed Chisora as being a fighter with whom Whyte was "at about the same level" when Whyte has a knockout win over Chisora.

    I can't understand how you can misunderstand this tbh.

    But yeah, I do find you finding the worst-case so consistently for a fighter like Whyte bizarre, and yeah I think you picking Skelton to beat him is silly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2021
    McGrain, Nov 3, 2021
    McGrain, Nov 3, 2021
    #128
  9. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Skelton would be about as competitive as Lucas Browne.
     
    George Crowcroft, Nov 3, 2021
    George Crowcroft, Nov 3, 2021
    #129
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Why would he fight Wallin when he is about to get a crack at Fury?

    I am inclined to agree, but they still need to prove it in the ring.
    There has undoubtedly been an improvement in the level of the British heavyweights since Skelton's day, and I am not talking about Fury and Joshua.

    Skelton, Williams, Sprott and Harrison were essentially Euro level.

    Chisorah and Whyte are a level above them.

    If you don't think so, then you would have to include that Skelton was fighting in a golden age of heavyweights, at the elite level.
    An old geezer who had been two levels above Skelton in his prime.

    Let's not forget that.
     
    janitor, Nov 3, 2021
    janitor, Nov 3, 2021
    #130
  11. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    The segement you quoted wasn't about Chisora being "at about the same level" as Whyte. I was referencing close fights. The 2nd fight puts Whyte above Chisora. But then Chisora is, on current from, is joseph Parker's level, and probably did better against Usyk than Joshua, so is he a clear "level" below Whyte?? I don't know.

    Does "a knockout win over ..." actually prove X is a "level above" Y then?
    Was Whyte a level below Povetkin in 2020 but level with - or a level above him - in 2021? Did someone go up a level or down a level? Youi hate me asking questions but you have this strict hierarchy of levels that isn't clear.

    I'm not sure why you have wanted to be so argumentative or dismissive. I simply describe Whyte as "British level", which you don't like. Fair enough.
     
    Unforgiven, Nov 3, 2021
    Unforgiven, Nov 3, 2021
    #131
  12. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    You mentioned fighters should be beating a path to fight him.
    Wallin was keen to fight him, Whyte agreed to fight him, and backed out.
    I'm sure lots of fighters would fight Whyte, he draws decent money.

    I would say Agit Kabayel is "essentially Euro level".
     
    Unforgiven, Nov 3, 2021
    Unforgiven, Nov 3, 2021
    #132
  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Not true. I refered back to the videos I posted and challenge anyone to take the eye test, playing those videos simultaneously, (I timestamped them at beginning of bouts). Whyte, Skelton, Williams, Chisora all very similar in speed, power, strength, athleticism, technical skill, if you watch honestly. In my sincere humble opinion.
    I would rather you guys watch and enjoy the videos.
     
    Unforgiven, Nov 3, 2021
    Unforgiven, Nov 3, 2021
    #133
  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    @janitor where do you rank Whyte compared to Bruno?
     
    Unforgiven, Nov 3, 2021
    Unforgiven, Nov 3, 2021
    #134
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    So why did Wallin want to fight him?

    For a chance to jump the que.

    If Wallin wins then he is ranked top five, and Whyte is back to square one.

    If Whyte wins then Wallin has lost nothing, and Whyte has gained very little.

    This was yet another a high risk low reward fight for Whyte, which he would probably have taken if he had not been Fury's mandatory.

    If Whyte is as bad as you say, then he is clearly the soft underbelly of the top five, and men with a ranking to lose should be targeting him.
     
    janitor, Nov 3, 2021
    janitor, Nov 3, 2021
    #135
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