Muhammad Ali vs. Sonny Liston 11/16/64 Boston - what happens?

Ali wins by stoppage by around the tenth round. Still too young,strong and skilful for Liston.
Liston,even though well trained,was on a downhill trajectory while Muhammad was improving.

 

You are very correct, Ali would have not been able to knock Sonny Liston out, he did not have the punching power to do so, total agreement, Liston was no Bum.

 

But with all due respect, Muhammad Ali was a lot slower in the 1970's, he was more vulnerable than in his title reign, 1964 - 1967, Cooper knockdown happened before Muhammad Ali was champion.

 

I agree, 70s Ali was slower and had less stamina, but he was stronger, hit harder and had a better chin. He was also more dirty and inclined to cheating in order to win.

I don't think there is much of a difference between the chin of a 63 Ali vs the chin of a 64 Ali.

 

Depends on whether you believe the second fight was fixed.

If it was, the answer to "What happens?" is "Whatever the Mob wants Sonny to do."

 

So true.

 

But again, Ali staggered Liston in rd 3 and there were some other not so pronounced moments when Sonny’s legs didn’t appear 100% solid beneath him.

So, based on same, why isn’t a legit KO possible in the rematch at some point? Miami and Lewiston came about 4 and 5 years respectively after Liston’s chin was last truly tested v Williams. Even if only an actual 32/33 as at the two Ali fights (I believe more like 33/34) Liston was logically in decline, certainly not improving while youthful Ali was on an exponential rise. .

After Maine, I don’t believe Liston’s chin was reasonably tested until the Martin fight.
Prime Liston had a granite chin, and though obviously shook by the bombs of Big Cat in both matches, I didn’t detect his legs betraying him. He was arguably hurt more when he was clearly wobbled by Ali in Miami. So an older Liston might’ve lost some resilience and even an iron chin can be chipped away by an accumulation of incessant and decently hard punches.

Though unwritten, I took this to be precluding any mob involvement or a less than 100% committed Liston. Just Liston at his projected best as at the time. If we include mob involvement then it’s a bust as a fantasy fight.

As to the mob anyway, aside from calling Liston’s moves as fake, where’s the evidence in all these years? There really isn’t any. For all the evidence (or lack there of) one could make the same claim re a good number of many other fights with equal “conviction”. Citing mob involvement to explain Liston’s defeat or defeats basically amounts to a generic throw away line.