Does current Canelo beat Mayweather he originally faced?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by 80s champs, Nov 6, 2021.


  1. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Great post.

    It’s just a completely different fighter altogether.
     
  2. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    The type of pressure Canelo applies wouldnt work on Mayweather. The fight mechanics are obvious to see.

    For gods sakes, C level Mayweather impressionist Plant had success against Canelo when he was sticking to the Mayweather impression.

    Plant got worked and worn down against Canelo entirely due to flaws in talent, IQ, experience and style implementation, that Mayweather simply doesnt do and doesnt have.

    If the Plant fight itself doesnt show that Mayweather style would still work on Canelo, I dont know what else to say.

    Plenty of people had Plant winning 4 rounds (including one official judge). Floyd wouldnt win 3 more rounds than 21-0 Plant who was using Mayweathers style?

    Sorry, I just dont buy it.

    And bringing up that Mayweather couldnt beat other SMW's is completely irrelevant. Styles and dimensions make fights. Being able to beat smaller operators at higher weights doesnt mean you can beat the larger opponents that the smaller operator you can beat does.

    Thats boxing matchmaking 101.


    Again, nothing builds illusions in boxing than knocking out non elite fighters. Works every time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2021
  3. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    The reason Floyd fought Canelo at 152 is the same many A side fighters apply advantages that stack decks in their favor in important matchups. Nothing new there and doesnt imply anything other than that.

    Golovkin is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
     
  4. Spongebob south paw pants

    Spongebob south paw pants Active Member Full Member

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    Totally canelo has grown into an all round machine with outstanding ring iq there's fights like BJS where he was happy to sit back and be patience losing a few rounds mid way but knowing he would land that uppercut. Then there's the way he came out with plant aggressive bossed the centre of the ring happy to engage in the pocket but still maintaining a solid defence. That's some high level boxing and never looks flustered
     
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  5. Ricdog

    Ricdog Active Member Full Member

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    Stick your head in the sand if you want. He was 15lb max above Floyd, probably less. Officially the last scale was 165lb for him. Floyd was unknown but around 150lb. Again Geale was easily 20lb greater than Cotto, he weighed as much as freaking cruiserweight and still got spanked in a few rounds.

    I'll say this again, Floyd beat Canelo at junior middleweight (154lb or less on weigh in).... and technically at a catchweight. Until Floyd beats Canelo at a real middleweight (weigh in 160lb) or SMW (168lb)....Floyd ain't beating nothing.
     
  6. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    The huge assumption that you’re making, is that Floyd weighing 150 pounds, would fight as offensively as what Plant did against TODAY’S version of Canelo.

    It doesn’t matter what Plant did on Saturday.

    Plant is a fellow SMW.

    It doesn’t matter that Floyd is levels above Plant on a P4P basis.

    Please remember, I’m not hypothetically looking at today’s more matured and experienced version of Canelo, weighing in at 152-154 pounds, vs the version of Floyd who he fought in 2013.

    I’m specifically looking at the version of Canelo who fought Plant on Saturday, vs the version of Floyd who he fought in 2013.

    That changes everything.

    The whole dynamic.

    A 150 pound guy, vs a SMW.

    Again, Floyd was super confident and offensive back in 2013, when he faced a young, inexperienced 23 year old version of Canelo.

    He backed Canelo up, and he took the centre of the ring where he threw lead right hands, where Canelo didn’t press him.

    Like I’ve said to the other members on this thread, just ask yourself how realistic it would be for that same version of Floyd from 2013, to have tried to have implemented that same game plan.


    From Floyd’s perspective, the questions you need to ask, are:

    1. How confident would he be against today’s SMW version of Canelo?

    2. How offensive minded would Floyd be against today’s version of Canelo?


    He’d be facing a guy who’s now 3 divisions higher, who’s fully matured, and whos’s now bigger, stronger and more powerful, who’s knocked out legitimate SMW’s and a LHW. And it makes zero difference if the guys he knocked out weren’t on Floyd’s level.


    From Canelo’s perspective, the questions you need to ask, are:

    1. Today, would he realistically stand off of a 150 pound fighter, like he did over 8 years ago?

    2. Would he impose his new size, strength and power, to fight in a far more offensive and aggressive manner?


    IMHO, today’s fight would give you:

    A far more cautious and less offensive version of Floyd, vs a far more aggressive and offensive version of Canelo.

    Again, that would just give you a completely different fight altogether.


    The differences between Canelo from 2013 and today, are startling.

    Maybe not in terms of style. He’s still a counter puncher. But the guy who got schooled by Floyd and who struggled with Lara and Trout, is now knocking out guys like: Smith, BJS, Plant and Kovalev etc, with power shots, along with more confidence, experience and stamina.

    He’s just a different animal to the young guy who Floyd met.


    You say that the pressure Canelo applies wouldn’t work on Floyd?

    Why on earth not?

    Again, the pressure that he applies on other fighters at SMW, would not be the same as the pressure that he’d apply on a 150 pound version of Floyd.

    Fighting a 150 pound Floyd today would be a unique set of circumstances.

    Canelo wouldn’t show Floyd the same amount of respect that he did back in 2013, and he wouldn’t show Floyd the same amount of respect as what he shows his fellow opponents at the weights he fights them at.

    Canelo is going to respect any fellow top level SMW and LHW that he faces.

    How much respect would he show a 36 year old, 150 pound fighter, TODAY?

    Today’s Canelo would back Floyd up and put him on the defensive.

    He’d walk him down and take 10 shots to land just a few of his own.

    He’d back Floyd up like Maidana and Oscar did, where he’d throw power shots.

    He wouldn’t care if the majority of them missed.

    He simply wouldn’t treat Floyd like he did in 2013.

    He’d treat him like he was a 150 pound fighter with zero power.

    He’d be far more offensive, where he showed Floyd much less respect.

    This seems absolutely obvious to me.


    If you don’t agree with the above, then that’s fair enough. But IMHO, what happened against Floyd in 2013, and what happened against Plant on Saturday night, has no bearing on a 150 pound Floyd vs Today’s Canelo.

    It wouldn’t even be a fair match up.

    Floyd would get walked down and hurt.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2021
  7. TBI

    TBI Active Member Full Member

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    Canelo that's prolly 178-185 fight night who has improved greatly is gonna whip a 155 lb Mayweayther....

    Honestly that's what it would take for anyone of the contemporaries to whip Floyd.

    Canelo too big, too improved.
     
  8. TBI

    TBI Active Member Full Member

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    That's some post!
     
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  9. dragon666

    dragon666 Active Member Full Member

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    I think the 154 Mayweather could still beat the 160 Canelo who fought Golovkin in the first fight.

    Canelo would try to come inside and throw hard body shots but miss then get jabbed to the face. He'll then throw a wild hook missing Mayweather and it would be rinse and repeat.

    This bigger Canelo at 168 would do more damage to Floyd if he landed enough clean shots which he could possibly do.

    It's probably closer if they fought at 160 or a catch weight of 164 or something. It would be a closer fight and Canelo's power might be the edge he needs to beat Floyd.
     
  10. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    The reason Floyd did that was obvious.

    He obviously hoped that he’d struggle to make the weight, thus giving him an advantage on fight night.

    This is what makes your post a fantasy.

    BTW, I do respect your post, even though I believe it’s a fantasy.

    It’s just that you believe that the same guy who wouldn’t fight Canelo at 154, would fight today’s SMW version in the same manner that he fought the 152 version in 2013.

    IMHO, it’s completely unrealistic.

    Your posts haven’t even taken into account the realistic psychological aspect of things.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2021
  11. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Correct.

    Today, he’d have had no respect for the version of Floyd who he fought back in 2013.

    He’d stalk him.

    He’d walk him down and back up a defensive minded version of Floyd. And Floyd would definitely be defensive minded against THIS version of Canelo.
     
  12. Spongebob south paw pants

    Spongebob south paw pants Active Member Full Member

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    Well loudon steps up too bat and hammer's one out the park :rosstheboss
     
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  13. Spongebob south paw pants

    Spongebob south paw pants Active Member Full Member

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    100% problem with boxing fans is a lot of people see what they want to see sheep and cattle at times
     
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  14. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    GGG is relevant.

    Floyd said that GGG would be easy work.

    Back in the real world, we all know that Floyd would never have realistically have even entertained such a fight.

    Yet you’re claiming that the same guy would have fought and schooled today’s SMW version of Canelo.

    Again, it’s a fantasy.
     
  15. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    I appreciate your thorough explanation Loudon, we will have to just agree to disagree I suppose.

    You assume that Mayweather wouldnt be able to deal with a more confident Canelo that is isnt showing him respect. I disagree, and theres no basis for that assumption. Mayweathers near perfect ring generalship and positioning negates so much of the type of educated pressure that Canelo applies.

    There were plenty of times in the Plant fight where Canelo was trying to walk forward throwing big shots with no respect, but Plants positioning, footwork and ring generalship nullified what Canelo was trying to do.

    Canelos stamina has improved a lot, but a lot of that is the wisdom (from the experience he has) he uses in his energy management. If he is just going to try walking forward going all out, he risks gassing. It suits his physiology to apply educated pressure the way he always does, for energy management. That is a type of pressure Mayweather excels at.

    The fight switching from Floyd being the lead against young Canelo, to Floyd being the matador against Hulk Canelo, would be just fine for Mayweather, who is adept at playing that roll. Canelo is too slow of foot to close the gap on Mayweather the way he would need to in order to have sustained success.

    Mayweather wouldnt have to be as offensive as Plant. Hed win by controlling the action and having a higher landed ratio, as usual.

    And Canelo knocking out the SMW's hes knocking out is fairly irrelevant here. All of those fighters got knocked out because of flaws that Mayweather doesnt have. Positioning is everything in boxing, and Mayweather wont be in those positions to be caught like they were.

    But as usual, nobody will ever change their mind. :lol: So agree to disagree.

    The difference is, I feel I have actual reasons to believe Mayweather wins.

    I think much of your theories are based on rather baseless assumptions (Mayweather wouldnt deal with a Canelo that shows him no respect) (Mayweather wouldnt be able to outbox Canelo as the matador) (Mayweather couldnt do what Plant did because Canelo showed Plant respect that he wouldnt show Mayweather)

    Mayweather would still control the range. He would still control the ring. He would still beat Canelo to the punch. Canelo isnt fast enough to close the gap, hes not fast enough to land the shots he'd need to, and he doesnt have the style to penetrate Mayweathers defenses.

    But around and around we go lol. Tis the nature of forums I guess.
     
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