Why do people say Usyk is too small for Joshua and Fury but still favour guys like Ali and Holmes?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by MorningSage, Dec 23, 2020.

  1. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Messages:
    49,411
    Likes Received:
    15,515
    Well stated on all counts.
     
    mark ant likes this.
  2. On The Money

    On The Money Dangerous Journeyman Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2012
    Messages:
    29,548
    Likes Received:
    14,138
    I don't think he's too small to deal with Joshua, but we're looking at a guy who won't engage him close up and will pot shot on his bike and clinch. Not a lot Usyk can do when that is enough to impress matchroom judges.
     
    mark ant likes this.
  3. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Messages:
    36,654
    Likes Received:
    16,547
    Usyk will land far more than Ruiz did in that rematch, he has quicker feet and will counter most of AJ`s shots.
     
    dcr likes this.
  4. On The Money

    On The Money Dangerous Journeyman Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2012
    Messages:
    29,548
    Likes Received:
    14,138
    That wouldn't be hard. Ruiz was a static blob of lard in that rematch.
     
    mark ant and Bumnard_Hopkins like this.
  5. dcr

    dcr New Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ev
    So every ATG fighter that Ali beat were a load of rubbish? That's your rationale for running down Ali and his unsurpassed achievements as a heavyweight. You may want to rethink that particular line of reasoning son because it makes you look entirely clueless and out of your depth on these forums.
     
    MadProf and mark ant like this.
  6. Bumnard_Hopkins

    Bumnard_Hopkins Burger King banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2021
    Messages:
    908
    Likes Received:
    680
    I am pushing back the narrative that Ali was somehow heads and shoulders above his contemporaries. He had a lot of trouble with many of his contemporaries, lost to them and in the later part of his career was outright gifted decisions.

    Ali's status is inflated by factors unrelated to his boxing skill.
     
  7. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    Messages:
    14,840
    Likes Received:
    19,075
    Hopefully some people's minds have been changed since the time this thread was made. I doubt it, since I hear the same voices parroting the same lines about Fury, but maybe a few mistaken souls have since seen the light.

    Honestly though it's frustrating how there's still this persistent notion that modern CWs are small men when in many cases they're just as large or larger than HWs of the past. And if they're athletic well-schooled men then why shouldn't they be able to compete on even terms with larger heavyweights? Ali and Holmes weren't supermen, just very skilled big men. It's not unheard of that this combination could come round again.

    There's just this clot of wilful ignorance and unshakeable nostalgia preventing a lot of people from viewing things objectively when modern fighters (especially CWs) are brought up. It can't be fun to be a fan with this sort of mindset, so why persist in it?
     
  8. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Messages:
    36,654
    Likes Received:
    16,547
    I agree but Ali had a 78 inch reach like Usyk has while Holmes had an 84 inch reach which is longer than AJ`s and a far better jab than Fury.
     
  9. CleneloAnavarez

    CleneloAnavarez Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2021
    Messages:
    1,795
    Likes Received:
    1,469
    A good big man beats a good small man. You will see that when Fury comprehensively beats Usyk.

    If you think the step up in size isn't so difficult then why have so few people successfully made the jump? Why does the cruiserweight division exist at all?
     
    ertwin likes this.
  10. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    78,393
    Likes Received:
    127,421
    Usyk unified the HW division in just 15 fights, winning, unifying, and defending all his world titles in his opponents backyards, and then he moved up to the SHW and won three of the world titles in his opponent's backyard all within 18 fights.
     
    catchwtboxing likes this.
  11. CleneloAnavarez

    CleneloAnavarez Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2021
    Messages:
    1,795
    Likes Received:
    1,469
    @Serge Your picture shows you are an Usyk fan.

    How do you expect he will beat Fury who will seek to roughhouse him? I doubt Fury will attempt to exchange punch for punch and outbox Usyk like Joshua tried to do.
     
    Serge likes this.
  12. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    78,393
    Likes Received:
    127,421
    Well, he has to get by AJ in the rematch first and that's no foregone conclusion, especially considering it's not Usyk vs AJ it's Usyk vs AJ + the entire world :facepalm:

    Apparently, AJ only lost that fight because ''he got the tactics wrong'' which is bizarre because if that was the case all he would need to do to beat him is simply change them for the rematch. He wouldn't need to head over to the US to seek the advice on how to beat Usyk from their best trainers, throw his training team under the bus, openly admit he's going to cheat, and revamp everything and spend all this time watching and learning and soaking up as much knowledge as he can ie. go to all these drastic measures in order to help him make drastic improvements as a fighter if it was merely a case of that.

    And his comments from just 48 hours completely contradict his excuses

    'Anthony Joshua says he feels under pressure to deliver a spectacular finish when he returns to boxing in front of a big crowd for the first time in three years against Oleksandr Usyk on Saturday.

    It was September 2018 that Joshua stopped Alexander Povetkin at Wembley in front of 80,000 fans, the last in a run of huge stadium events that had begun with his career-defining win over Wladimir Klitschko.

    But since then, things have been on a smaller scale – fights with Andy Ruiz Jr in New York and Saudi Arabia and a 1,000-strong Covid-restricted crowd at Wembley Arena.

    Joshua insists, however, that he is better now than ever before.

    “I feel better now than I did going into the Klitschko fight,” Joshua said. “It’s not about nerves but I’m just more experienced and I know what I’m doing. I know what I'm going to do – I just know – a knockout.

    “It’s Kronk style. I've been watching a lot of certain things – I like Emanuel Steward's mindset. Obviously, you have to do your ABCs but if you follow them you get to KO.

    “That’s what I’m here to do – put on a spectacular show. People want to see knockouts. That’s what we’ve got to deliver for the fans.”

    I'm pretty sure ''Kronk style'' is an aggressive style :facepalm:

    But if Usyk does manage to beat AJ and his tag-team partner the whole world and move onto facing Fury he will use speed, skill, movement and intelligence to beat Fury

    “Believe it or not, this is going to sound strange, Cunningham was the hardest fight I ever did have in my whole career, amateur or professional.

    “The reason being he was very slippery, I couldn’t pin him down. He was light on his feet, weighing 208lbs, he was a cruiserweight champion and he stepped up into heavyweights.

    “He was a slick, talented boxer and I tried to walk him down, use my size and power, but he was just outboxing me.

    “What I’m good at – boxing, moving, slipping and sliding – I couldn’t do against Steve Cunningham because he was quicker than me.

    “It was like he was a better boxer all round than me, and he’d knocked me over even though he was a light puncher.

    This content is protected
     
    3rdegree likes this.
  13. ertwin

    ertwin Active Member banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2016
    Messages:
    1,353
    Likes Received:
    1,101
    Yes you geniuses only forgot that fury also has an advantage in weight. Which I don’t know if you know is the one criteria boxers are separated by.
     
  14. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Messages:
    36,654
    Likes Received:
    16,547
    Fury isn`t as skilled as Usyk, he misses far too many punches.
     
    lordlosh likes this.
  15. Oddone

    Oddone Bermane Stiverne's life coach. Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2019
    Messages:
    5,999
    Likes Received:
    13,071
    This.