Rate Joe Louis' chin

Up until his last fight with Marciano Louis was always coming forward making the fight, looking for the stoppage,so he put himself in harms way.
Schmeling hit him with a ton of right hands ,one after the bell from which he never really recovered,yet Max couldn't get Joe out until the 12th rd .Louis took some rights from Max Baer without flinching too . He had an above average chin , stopped only twice ,in 69 fights by two big bangers ,the second when he was washed up bears this out. Around 7/8.imo

 

Some may disagree but if Louis had a weakness I think balance would-be it. Some of the times he got dropped I don't think he was that hurt.

 

Not all knockdowns are chin related though. Also Larry Holmes was knocked down a few times as well.

 

Yea, that's what I said. You trying to be a smart ass?

 

Is there really such an enormous gap in skill between Galento and shavers tho?

 

It's all there on film. Baer landed some big punches and Louis turned the tables on him so fast Max forgot he'd landed anything at all. Many people do indeed consider Max somewhere around the league of Shavers for power. Shavers was hardly the epitome of form and technique, just have a look at him trying to finish Holmes.

I also know very well that power is the last thing to go. Shavers was in all likelihood hitting as hard as ever and one only need look at James comments on the matter and comparisons to other punchers. You can also see the explosive impact on film, it was a monster. On top of this Shavers put the very durable Joe Bugner onto his rectum just two fights prior.

You don't think Galento hits as hard? Perceiving Snipes to be an athletic 215lb in the Louis era is speculation. His co-ordination was all over the place for starters and his skills are average to put it kindly. Definitely something seamus would put forward tho as that was his go to as well.

Butterbean was sure no athletic god and fat as a fool do you think he doesn't match Snipes power? Galento had a fair whack on him i think that's pretty fair to say.

Was Shavers too terrible to hit Holmes hard again? Isaac? Snipes? Did you see any of those three land a follow up bomb?

*Galento

I doubt Shavers, Snipes or Cooney even get in the position TBH and if they did the odds favor Joe roaring back as he usually did, like Holmes usually did. Do you think Holmes would have survived if it was Tyson or Foreman in place of Isaac, Snipes or Shavers? I dn't and i'd guess the same of Louis. Not the likes of Snipes et al tho.

The thing about the Baer knockdown is it looks so much more dramatic as Louis fell between the ropes. What an astute observer will notice is that from the time Louis is knocked thru the ropes to the time Baer is reigning punches on him again is about 8 seconds. Louis climbs back thru the ropes on very steady legs and no sooner he puts his feet down then Baer is on top of him.

From the time Holmes hit the floor against Snipes until Snipes is punching again is 14 seconds. Those extra 6 seconds are a long time under such circumstances. Holmes was in FAR worse condition than Louis when they got up.

Louis' recovery against Baer is hugely impressive.

The Louis - Schmeling fight has been banged on about 1000 times. Louis dogged it in training (something he never did again) and his trainer is actually on record prior to the fight saying as much and voicing his concerns. As Futch says when you aren't in shape you can't recover from punishment near as well and Max hit Louis with dozens and dozens of right hands due to a defensive flaw of Joe's which was subsequently addressed. There's career stage as well but i won't go on and on.

'Vulnerability" doesn't come to mind for either of these two when context is utilised. Joe was a bit more susceptible to the flash knockdown but i'd note that Holmes was usually hurt more when they actually hit the mat. Both had superb powers of recuperation and enormous heart.

I could handle Louis being marked a half a point behind Holmes if someone was of that inclination but i wouldn't go as far as a full point. Another big positive for Louis is that he recovered so fast and was so sharp and powerful when under this sort of pressure you had to be careful he didn't knock you out as you attacked. Some fighters are seldom more dangerous than when hurt and he would be in that bracket i think.

 

Totally agree. For one, when he got dumped by Braddock’s counter, Joe’s feet were forward of his body and parallel IIRC. I guess you can take credit away from Joe for being caught out like that after throwing his own punch but his going down on that occasion was far more, if not all, to do with being off balance than a body short circuit. Joe of course was up quickly. Patterson went down from a few balance shots himself. I think respectably chinned Aaron Pryor also went down a couple of times for the same reason.

As to rating Joe’s chin. As it was, certainly very serviceable in context with everything else he had going for him. I’m thinking 7.5 to 8 in absolute terms leaving room for the next tier like Ali and then the next one again for inhuman chins like that of Chuvalo, Cobb and McCall.

 

a seven

Joe was stiff and didnt seem to roll with punches like Duran. that eans he tended to catch the full impact

This would cost him in a fight against someone like tyson who would unlike someone like Ron Lyle, would immediately follow up to the body and head. Mike would definitely have joe in trouble