Marciano or Holmes ? Who rates higher ?

You could make a strong argument either way.

 

I wouldn't get into an extended debate over either of these being ahead of the other. Both have their strengths and weaknesses resume wise. I've seen Marciano rated as high as #3 on respectable lists and Holmes is often there as well.

Personally i'd have Holmes a little above but as i say i wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Two great fighters.

 

You are right, debates are for worthless politicians, I do not vote anyway.

 

Debates are ok, just for me personally this one's pretty close. There's too little daylight between them to get my teeth into.

 

how tough a question is this? Probably Holmes but they are close..

 

Joe Louis was foolish and greedy?
Nino Valdes was the number one contender in 53 and 54 Rocky never fought him.
I think you will find most of the blabbing came from Rocky's relatives, and definitely after the fight all the crowing did,when they did their best to turn the post fight press conference into a Rocky tribute.
Bottom line two great fighters and you take your pick.

 

I like Marciano for clearing our his division far better, but I think this is a classic "what you like" type question. Both great, but in quite different ways.

 

They’re both top ten and arguably top 5 HWs. But beating hall of fame fighters means something. I would take the Archie Moore that Marciano beat over anyone on Larry’s resume. Walcott and Charles were up there w the versions of Norton and Tim. Larry beat some young guys but they were inexperienced. Some with as little as ten fights several under 20. Great fighter but unfortunately for Larry is that there wasn’t another great contender around at the moment when he was prime. Would have been nice if he fought Foreman. Had he gotten that W he would rate above Marciano imo. But during his prime he got Cooney who wasn’t all that good and a very inexperienced Spoon.

 

Nino missed two opportunities to meet Rocky. He refused to fight an elimination bout against Charles (Charles fought Satterfield in his place) and he lost an eliminator against Archie Moore.

 

He had already beaten Charles why should he need to fight him again?
Fact in December 1953 and December 1954 Valdes was the number one contender.
You can wriggle around as much as you like, but you will not change that!

 

Holmes never made any pretense about fighting being anything other than a means to an end; he was a businessman, not classically educated but plenty savvy. And if he could make a better payday going after someone safe vs a potential threat, he went for the safe payday every time. He was more concerned with longevity vs legacy. On some level, I think even Marciano would respect that -

 

Was Nino offered and given two chances? Yes or No? Then you have your answer. He wasn’t worthy of a shot and didn’t get it. The Charles victory wasn’t convincing. Especially being it was close and nino had four losses the previous year. How many people get title shots with four losses the year before? Fact you wriggle around as much as you like but you can’t change Ninos record.

 

Holmes for me by a wide margin tho I have come to appreciate Marciano more over the years

 

I keep seeing the claim that Valdes refused an eliminator with Ezzard Charles. But when I ask when Valdes was specifically promised that he could have a title shot if he could beat Charles again I never get an answer.

 

He was offered no title shot, he was in an elimination fight with Moore to fight Marciano that's all.That fight was inMay 1955 .Valdes had been the no1 contender in 53 and 54!
BS that the Moore loss eliminated him is just that, BS!
Why didn't Marciano fight him in53 or 54? Instead of defending against the man Valdes had beaten, Charles? The Valdes fight was not close at all!

• Referee: [url]Cy Gottfried[/url] 2-7
• Judge: [url]Gus Jacobson[/url] 3-5
• Judge: [url]Morris Feingold[/url] 3-5

"Ezzard Charles' dream of becoming the first man in history to regain the world's heavyweight championship lay all but shattered today under the wreckage of his surprise loss to obscure Nino Valdes of Cuba. Valdes stunned a crowd of 3,500 last night as he took Charles' best punches and came on to win the unanimous 10 round vote of two judges and the referee. Charles entered the ring at 191 pounds, a little over his usual fighting weight, and he allowed that the extra poundage made him a little sluggish." -United Press

• Unofficial UP scorecard - 5-3-2 Valdes

Thats to loads of BS from you disposed of!