David Tua vs Jim Jeffries

On the Corbett Fitzsimmons fight, that's inaccurate. Fitzsimmons did better as the fight went on, and broke Corbett down. It wasn't just a punch our of nowhere.

There were other heavyweights at the same time, who hit as hard or harder than Fitzsimmons, specifically Maher and Choynski, so why was he so much more successful than them?

In their second fight Jeffries largely won on strength and durability, but he showed a lot of other good qualities in other fights, and he also employed different strategies in different fights.

Charactising Jeffries just off the Fitzsimmons rematch is a bit like characterising Ali just off the Foreman fight.

 

It's hard to say since Dempsey, Tunney and Marciano were retired at the age Fitz was when Jeff fought them. Louis got crushed by Marciano at 37 .. was he the same Louis that fought Schmeling the second time ? Prime versions of the fighters mentioned were all much much better than the faded , inactive versions of Corbett and Fitz Jeffries fought..Corbet was 33, well into his thirties for their first bout .. speaking of that first bout in 1900 do you remember the last Corbett win ? Six years before in 1894. As far as your claim that everyone said Jeffries won the second fight w Sharkey the answer is that you are simply incorrect.

 

tua flattens him. just the wrong style for a mauler like jeffries.

 

So when weight isn't enough, you bring up age... Fitzsimmons wasn't faded at all, he demolished Sharkey and Ruhlin right after the Jeffries fight.

Since when 33 is "well into thirties"? Seriously?

Yeah, Corbett was inactive fighter. He always was, so what? If you want to tell me that Corbett wasn't that great to begin with, that's another debate but if you view Corbett as significant name of the era, then I don't think it's fair to say he was shot. He beat McCoy after Jeffries fight after all.

Yeah, not everyone. The consensus was that Jeffries deserved a decision. He also fought injured in that fight by the way.

 

First, keeping it in context.

I replied to 70sfan in which he stated that some reporters were biased, some in favour of Jeff, some against him.


I provided a quote reportedly from Jeffries in which he characterised himself and I made it clear it was in respect of the Fitz rematch.


Jeff v Fitz 2 wasn’t at all analogous to a very specific and unique strategy that Ali successfully utilised against the stronger, more powerful Foreman. Re Jeff v Fitz 2 some might simply conclude Jeffries was taking his usual dose of punishment before overcoming his tiring opponent.

Certainly, there was no strategy in being beaten up and damaged as Jeffries was and until the turn around KO, Jeffries was trying to reach Fitz and was falling well short of his efforts to do so.


Also, it isn’t the only fight in which it was noted that Jeffries absorbed a lot punishment and unduly so.


Stating that Fitz came on as Corbett tired - that isn’t at all inaccurate. How could Corbett not tire faster than usual given his inactivity? He had Fitz down, hurt and bleeding In rd 6. As early as rd 7 Corbett was showing signs of tiring though he still dominated thereafter but progressively less so. Sure, Fitz was gunning for the body but with some sporadic success.


Ultimately, it was a punch out of nowhere in so far being the most successful punch by far landed by Fitz during the fight - the fight ending punch no less. Why was Fitz so adamant that he wouldn’t rematch Corbett?


How is it that Maher and Choysnki hit as hard or harder?. Are we trying to turn down on Fitz’s punch in order to turn up on his skill? Was he or wasn’t he generally regarded as the hardest puncher of his day?


Jeffries himself at least said Fitz was the hardest puncher he faced also.


Jeffries was also soaking shots for the better part of 20 rds from Corbett. Where’s the MO on that occasion? There was nothing Jeffries could do about it.


Too coincidental to say that Jeffries suddenly stepped it up after 3/4 of the bout had already passed - rather than the more likely conclusion that older inactive Corbett began to naturally flag due to his own constant movement and output, with Jeffries finally able to capitalise - size, strength, durability etc. ultimately winning the day yet again.

 

Great UNBIASED post!

 

Leaving aside the age and size disparity between Jeffries and Corbett for a moment.
Corbett, in the 1stJeffries fight had not fought for a year and a half,he had not won any of his last 3 fights, and had not won a fight for 6 years ,and that was against the 165lbs Charlie Mitchell.
Corbett beat McCoy and that may or may not have been a fake, who else had he beaten in the previous
NINE AND A HALF YEARS?
During which time he had a total of 5 fights.
To be clear.
Are you suggesting none of these facts are relevant when assessing the merits of Jeffries wins over him?

 

They are relevant, of course. It's just funny that you only focus on that and little else.

 

Fitzsimmons came back quickly after the KD. Corbett tried to finish him, but Fitz hurt him quickly. Since then, Corbett started losing the fight. It's visible on the tape.

 

Instead of focusing on them what, IYO should I be focusing on when assessing the merits of these wins?

 

The description I recall is that Corbett basically shot his load trying to put Fitz out in rd 6 and that Fitz only purposed himself enough to survive and see the rd out. I don’t recall seeing Fitz come back at Corbett and doing any significant damage - given the quality it’s not one of my frequent go to vids - but I’ll have a look next chance.

You’ve still got to be even handed and allow that Corbett completely dominated until he began to tire by the mid way point and he still exercised control for a good number of rds thereafter but increasingly less so.

Corbett’s preceding years of inactivity being the obvious explanation for same.

 

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Corbett rushed at Fitz, but Bob countered him with his left hand. They clinched and after another Corbett try, Fitz found him with powerful left that backed Jim up. Then he went with another left and the right to the body. That's when Corbett's attempts to stop Fitz ended. Since this moment, all material we have shows Fitz landing on Corbett more and more punches.

Of course it's possible that Corbett got tired after the 6th round, but I'd say that the number of landed body shots had something to do with that.

 

Jeffries overall body of work, which is quite good. It's nice to focus on one fight when given fighter didn't look so amazing, but I think it's also fair to give him credit for destroying Ruhlin, clearly outboxing Sharkey while being injured or dealing with the best fighters in the world while being a novice.

Also, if you want to focus so much on his size and age, then why he dominated big and young fighters in such a quick fashion? Jeffries stopped Ruhlin quickly, he almost stopped Ruhlin in the first fight as well in the final round if I remember correctly. He beat Bob Armstrong who was a world level opponent. He stopped Pete Everrett quickly, same with Kennedy and Munro - sure, they weren't amazing but all were relatively big and decent opponents. Finally, he stopped Hank Griffin as a complete amateur in his 3rd fight.

If size and age were so critical to Jeffries success, then why he beat up bigger and younger opponents easier? It's really not rare in HW boxing that some eras were dominated by older, more experienced fighters. The same thing happened in 1950s and late 1990s.

 

In my last post I expressly said,"leaving out the size and age disparity".
Let's look at Corbett's 2 challenges.
1st Fight Corbett hadn't fought for THREE YEARS.
Corbett hadn't won a fight for SIX YEARS.
2nd fight Corbett had won ONE FIGHT in the last NINE AND A HALF YEARS and that one is still viewed with suspicion today.
He hadnt fought for a YEAR AND A HALF.
He had won NONE OF HIS LAST 3 FIGHTS
My contention is any challenger in the last 75 years, with those stats, getting into the ring with the champion would be laughed out of the arena .Indeed no promoter would dare to put such a title fight on because nobody would buy it!
Do you agree ?
Disagree?

He didn't "destroy Ruhlin" Ruhlin was retired fully conscious in his corner between rounds.The man who had already destroyed Ruhlin was Fitz!
Indeed comparing Fitz wins over Corbett,Ruhlin and Sharkey to Jeffries results over them shows that Fitz's are far the more impressive!
Armstrong was never world level.Kennedy was Jeffries sparring partner and he entered the ring fat as a hog. Munroe was a joke when he later fought Johnson the press remarked he didnt even know how to punch correctly.
Out box Sharkey? Exactly how hard was that to do?
Johnson then a novice ,made him look foolish in sparring.
Now you mentioned size.
Which men bigger than himself did Jeffries ever beat?
Which men the same size did he ever beat?