Does anybody have live call of Frazier v bonevenna 2 with sound ?

No but it went 15 action packed rounds on Dec 10 1968, I remember that fight.

 

All versions of the Chuvalo fight I found were silent or had added sound, have never been able to find the full second Bonavena fight, only highlights but with sound.

 

Isn't that the dude who wrote the book about Greb? I know they say to never erect statues to living men, but this man is clearly the exception!

for starters, I propose the steps of the Philadelphia Art Museum.

 

Just out of cruiosity why isn't Frazier ever ranked atop P4P lists? Ali and Armstrong always make the grade, but not Frazier!?!?!?!?!?

 

His detractors usually say cuz of the Foreman fights that tarnished his reputation. Or not coming out for the 15th in Thrilla, not his fault though. Think he has the capability to take on any ATG except Foreman and Liston.

 

He was absolutely finished at that point of his career. Honestly, after FOTC he had nothing left to prove. He could have rightfully retired.

His subsequent titles defenses showed how much on the slide he was. Still sound performances, but it was not the same Frazier. If I were his management, I would have kept the world tour coming, having him continue to munch through no-hope contenders, and making Ali and Foreman settle it between themselves before finally facing the winner. Even then, if it weren't clear Frazier still had a Manilla-rally left in him, I would have told him to hang it up.

Obviously, that's pure fantasy. But the way he was managed was atrocious.

 

It's funny. Frazier was washed up when he met Foreman, but he was always a MUCH smaller man than Foreman and Ali.

No one holds it against Armstrong that he lost decisively to Zivic and Robinson.

Ali was at his absolute best when he lost to Frazier. That's the only fight between them that should "count". And when Ali was old he lost to guys like Berbick, Norton and Spinks. No reason to hold those performances against him since he was old... so why doesn't Joe get the same courtesy, I always wonder.

 

To be fair Yank wanted Joe to retire after FOTC, Joe wanted to keep going. Stopping at Foreman would have been fine but people would be clamoring for an Ali rematch especially after he defeated Foreman.

People use the 3 year layoff and not enough fights as excuses for Ali losing the first fight, he lost cleanly and wouldn't have taken it if he didn't feel like he was ready.

 

Another criticism they give him is taking on non-ranked opponents as easy defenses after beating Ali, also not facing as much competition like Norton or Shavers.

 

Interesting. But people call Louis the best ever. Holmes' legacy has erupted over the past couple decades.
I think you are right. But I feel people are really, really hard on Joe. His more like a prop in the legend of Ali than his own man.

 

Even Manny Steward said that Joe's legacy can be summed up in one word: Ali. But he indisputably emerged as the best from Ali's exile up to the Foreman loss.

In pop culture he hasn't been able to measure up to Ali, Foreman, and Tyson, and sadly looks to continue to be that way. Even saw a poll where 40% thought Tyson Fury would beat Frazier.

 

remarkable post.

I would definitely pick Fury to beat him, though. The size disparity is absurd. In fact, Joe is closer in size to Beterbiev and Bivol than he is to Usyk and Gassiev. Boxing has evolved so much. Swap him out with either Gassiev or Usyk in their fight, and he'd get murked.

Doesn't change that he was an absolutely tremendous fighter in his own day. One of the best ever POUND-FOR-POUND. And a true American hero independent of Ali, or anyone else! True warrior, model citizen.