Marciano or Holmes ? Who rates higher ?

I think if Tim hadn't been convinced he won the Holmes fight after the 9th round he would have fought harder when he really needed to. His antics in the late rounds made it a clear two point victory for Holmes in my eyes.

The Williams fight was maybe even a point closer, but Williams too flagged even worse in the last rounds.

I never once gave either of them the nod against Larry. To me Larry still looked more than good enough to win in the Tim fight, the Carl he was obviously way past it.

 

I rate Marciano higher on legacy…but I rate Larry higher on longevity. It’s pretty close.

you can’t really rate a guy who was out of boxing after just seven years over a longtime great fighter like Larry until you can find someone who did more in just seven years.

I don’t think there was a more consistent champ than Larry. From 78-82 he was red hot over a lot of fights at world level. And in truth the guys he missed were only 50-50 with guys Larry handled. Not Larry himself.

 

Yeah, funny how Shavers, of all people, received a rematch.... and almost authored one of Boxing's greatest upsets. How many years was Shavers removed from his blowout loss to Quarry?

I respect Holmes quite a bit, but his career was very much engineered. Rocky arrived to the scene like a man possessed.

 

But Marciano wore himself out. He trained more like a Wrestler or MMA fighter. Lots of dudes leave High School these days burnt out and broken. College, even Olympic, quality prospects.

Larry had Ali to hold his hand while he crossed the street (lengthy career as a sparring partner), and then spent several years lurking around the shadows while the Hw legends slogged it out. His "coming out" fight was against Shavers for Lord's sake! And then he abandoned his championship for the least reputable belt so he could pick and choose who he fought.

He had close calls, even out-right robberies, with opponents the calibre whom Rocky would've torched. Really, do you see a 190 lb. 5'10" Spinks, Witherspoon, Norton, Williams or Shavers even seeing the middle rounds against Marciano? Hell, Cobb, Cooney, and Berbick didn't have the skill and guile of Moore and Walcott.

Holmes was a much bigger man than Marciano, but a far inferior finisher. And he applied his "skill" against dudes who often had virtually none.

 

But he was chasing Rocky's 49-0 which Rocky had accomplished in less than 9 years.

Rocky turned Pro at 24.

Rocky didn't have a Muhammad Ali to chaperone him to the dance on weekends.

Rocky tore through competition pretty quickly, almost to the point he couldn't get fights.

I feel like when you are defending against guys like Ronaldo Snipes and David Bey, the state of the sport of Boxing has to be questioned. Conversely, Boxing was still neck and neck with Baseball as America's favorite sport when Marciano rose the fore.

 

That's very reasonable. I think Holmes beats Marciano handidly in a fight. But again, pound-for-pound, I would pick Marciano.

Why do you think Rocky didn't fight Johansson. I actually believe Ingo stands a great chance of beating Rocky even at his best. Is that too wild an idea?

 

Being champion during the time that Rocky was king made a much bigger impact on the world. That’s not Larrys fault.

Historically Larry represented what was seen as a limbo period of boxing.

Where as Marciano will always be historically more significant. Because he was the only understood champion that represented his own decade.

Marciano was part of the 1950s in a way Tyson was part of the 1980s.

For all the big fights he was in, for all the title defences Larry had, heavyweight boxing had so significantly dropped from the mainstream interest that Holmes was and is legitimately overshadowed by Tyson and Ali.

And in a way Marciano never was in his own decade of fighting.

Everyone knew who the heavyweight champion was in the 1950s.

The champions fought in ballparks. Huge events in real cities in the days before colour TV.

you couldn’t have drew more than two ballpark audiences in a major city for a Larry Holmes fight in the 1980s.

Las Vegas was still a growing gambling centre beyond the mainstream grasp and still emerging as the legitimate city it is today.

Larry did not transcend boxing. He was overshadowed. He made as much money as anyone but crucially he is remembered only within the sport itself.

 

Holmes defended against
Evangelista no8
Ocasio no9
Shavers no 8 Earnie got his shot on the strength of koing Norton , ranked no 2, in1 rd
Given that fact it seems a pretty reasonable defence to me!
Weaver
Zanon no7 Nothing special but Euro Champ and had beaten Evangeslista and Rodriguez
Jones
Ledoux no10
Ali
Berbick no7
L Spinks no3 Kod Mercado in previous fight
Snipes no9
Cooney no2
Cobb no9
Rodriguez
Witherspoon no5
Frank
Frazier
Smith
Bey no3 Beaten Page in last fight
Williams
M Spinks Unbeaten LHvy Champ

 

I'd take Snipes and Bey to stop Cockell and both men were Ring ranked top ten.Holmes "coming out party," was actually against Roy Williams ,two years prior to Shavers , nobody was queuing up to face Tiger Williams .
Ali had no input into Holmes opponents so how was he ,"chaperoning/holding his hand?"
Marciano had nobody to fight?
Valdes no1 1953
Valdes no1 1954
Close calls?
Marciano v Lowry1
Marciano v Lastarza 1

 

Also, many of those men were ranked much higher by the WBC when they fought Holmes - Evangelista #3, Ocasio #3, Weaver #8, Shavers #1. That's a pretty good run considering it was all in a single year as champion.

Of course, one could argue about whether they really deserved to be ranked that high, but Holmes was WBC champion, it was their ratings that mattered to him.

 

Six months earlier Shavers had ko'd Norton ranked no2 in one round.

Easy pickings?