How Good Was Roy Jones Exactly?

H2H he's the daddy, alongside Mike Tyson.

I wouldn't favour any modern MW-LHW over him.

 

I’ve been criticized on forums for ranking him alongside men like Hagler, hearns and Leonard and maybe I went too far. But yes. There were prime fights of his where at times he looked unbeatable

 

At his best (160/168), he appeared to be unbeatable.

 

I'm the same way, there were times after a fight of his where I would have a hard time justifying really great fighters from the past being able to beat him. I think if you lived through his era and followed him you have a much better understanding of just how great he was. His speed, reaction times and boxing IQ were off the chart.

 

His only fault was staying in the game too long. Had he retired at 34, he would be in the discussion of Top Ten GOAT list. Before that advanced age, the discussion was already underway. Comparisons to SRR were regular.

His greatest mistake was bad career management.

 

Staying around too long shouldn't effect his rating.
Ezzard Charles was losing to bums in the last few years too, and he's highly rated.

Jones was a dominant force for a decade, barely touched. He was about 35 when he started to get beat up. Yeah, maybe he carried on until he was 45 or more, losing to bums and other has-beens but that shouldn't effect his greatness.
It's like judging Sophia Loren's legendary prime beauty on how she's looking at 87 years old. It doesn't matter. We all get old. It doesn't take away how brilliant they are in their youth.

 

Agree but I think going back to light heavy was the biggest mistake.

I know the Tarver fight had been on the cards for a while and Roy thought he could unify at Light Heavy again.

I just feel that weight loss is what took his speed and his punch resistance.

I just think lure of John Ruiz was too much as I don't think Roy thought he could deal with the likes of Lennox or any of the really capable guys at Heavy and that was his best chance of getting a belt.

 

Agreed. His last fight was still relatively recent (3-4 years ago). I think as time goes on Jones' twighlight years will be looked at like Ezzards were and his prime years to be more heavily weighted when judging him. An entire generation only lived through old chinny Jones

 

One measure of a fighter’s greatness is the number of excuses his detractors use to deconstruct his record to say he wasn’t any good.

 

neither do I buy into the "lacked solid fundamentals" argument

I also think his chin was fine but like Thomas Hearns, once he passed his prime, he couldnt take it any more

top ten of all time, EASY

 

He didn’t beat weak opposition.

He made them look that way.

Of course, they weren’t all great fighters. But they were almost all world class, top 10 fighters of their respective weights.

If you want to objectively rank his wins, you have to do 2 things:

1. Look at the manner of most of the victories.

2. Look at what those opponents had done just prior/what they went onto do afterwards.

Roy missed a lot of guys, but he still has a very good resume. It’s better than most of the fighters that fought around the same weights, in the same era.

He’s more underrated than overrated.

 

He didn’t really possess a fragile chin.

Apart from the Johnson knockout, those shots that he took would have put most guys away.

How many LHW’s could have survived the shot that Tarver hit him with?

How many former MW’s could survive the shots that a top level CW in Lebedev hit him with?

How many 46 year old former MW’s could have taken the shot that Enzo Mac hit him with?

It’s not his chin that let him down. It was his lack of defence which left him open and extremely vulnerable. That on top of his diminished punch resistance.

 

A few points:

Roy was injured in the first Hopkins fight. But he wouldn’t pull out as it was his first title opportunity after 4 years as a pro.

Ruiz wasn’t a great fighter, but he was a 230 pound top 10 HW. Roy was a 34 year old, 200 pound LHW, and former MW, who beat him with absolute ease. You can’t just dismiss it because Ruiz wasn’t a great HW. A LHW easily beating a top 5-10 HW has to count for something.

What do you class as a mediocre fighter?

Malinga and Castro were world class fighters, who won belts and who were respected.

Tarver was at his absolute best against Roy, and it certainly wasn’t a robbery.

 

Lack of fundamentals. Nearly half his losses inside the distance. Not the best chin.

 

I agree that he lacked some fundamentals. This was the nature of such a super talented beast. He was such a freak of an athlete he went 14 years without even needing them. This is also what made him age less gracefully than others as when his reflexes and durability dimmed (i do agree the move to heavyweight and back likely had something to do with it but at any rate he was suddenly over the hill) he didn't have that more orthodox defense to fall back on. It was a very fast fall from grace.

This of course doesn't dim what a wonderful H2H fighter he was during his long prime. The fact is by the time he went to ruin many other ATG's had retired or found the going tough as well. With Jones drop in durability things were just that much more dramatic.

If one wants to match fighters up after they were past their best Jones suffers badly but best for best he was an absolute machine. Great resume and also great H2H.