Carlos Monzon Vs Hearns - Is This The Worst, Fight At Middle For Tommy?

Hearns was NOT significantly faster than Hagler

but he IS significantly faster than Monzon. Tommy holds a HUGE edge. What makes you think he'd going to miss with his jab???

lose his confidence? you got to be kidding!

moreover, Monzon can't crowd Tommy the same way Hagler did because he's not built for it.

Shorter fighters can do this, making their size work for them. Hagler was known for his infighting.

Was Monzon?

From what I've seen, it is Hearns who brings all the talent, all the variety, all the danger and the ability to end a fight in the blink of an eye. Monzon does have the edge in late round stamina but he lacked Tommy's state of the art skills

 

same to you.. You are one of my favorite posters also. You are honest and give very knowledgeable posts.. Very accurate..... The wish I had for Tommy was to calm down and fight the Virgil Hill kind of fight with many of his fights.. He did do that more when he got older at 175 but at that point his legs were totally gone it seemed, so he couldn't really rely on them when he had to and layed on the ropes like with Barkley, who was a tough tough style for him....

 

Over 12 rounds I favour Hearns by close decision, he has a considerable speed advantage.

Over 15 rounds, it is Monzon by late stoppage or decision

 

His four-round destruction of Juan Roldán (63–2) to claim the vacant WBC middleweight title made Hearns a four-weight world champion.

 

there's a world of difference between the Hearns of 88/89 and his peak years

Consider:

Tommy was so damaging as to CUT Roberto Duran with his left

and Duran did not cut

Dropped Duran and sent him face first to the canvas with the shot heard around the world.

Remember the words 'NOBODY knocks out Duran"

CUT Marvin Hagler on the forehead that forced an inspection in the middle of the fight

terrorized Fred Hutchings and aced #1 ranked unbeaten James Shuler

Does anyone actually think Monzon is going to take these shots and then come back from them?

His chances of recovery are NOT GOOD. In the face of such raw, terrible power, even a legend can know fear

 

Hearns has all the tools to win this decisively, jab, speed, power, precision, and boxing ability.

However how many times did someone fight Monzon and had the tools to beat Carlos, most of his career if we are honest.

But Monzon could steadily, unspectacularly, workman like, would apply pressure not in the traditional pressure fighter way, he would stand there, use his jab, use his right hand in the pocket, use uppercuts when he could, negate a lot of Tommy’s offence and take this to the later rounds and that’s
where things gets interesting for Tommy. I would have confidence in Monzon at the end of the fight, I wouldn’t have total unwavering confidence in Tommy.

While Monzon always seemed to get the job done in the pivotal moments of his career, Tommy although against better opposition didn’t always.

I wouldn’t count Monzon out if this fight did happen.

 

Juan Roldan was Carlos Monzon's sparring partner, true fact. Many of Monzon's sparring partners refused to spar with him, they said he hit too hard, also a true fact. When I see photos of Hearns, he is always laying on the canvas, taking the full count. A great fighter knows his limitations, Monzon was comfortable in his own division, he was not a fool to listen to bloodthirsty fans who believe in this mumbo jumbo nonsense of winning fights in multiple divisions, only morons get off on this utter nonsense. Hearns can dish it out, he cannot take it.

 

People like you have not followed boxing to know that King Carlos Monzon has taken hard shots before, round 9 of his title defense against Bennie Briscoe on Nov 11 1972, Carlos was badly staggered, he recuperated to win a unanimous 15 round decision. Hearns can only dish it out, but cannot take it from a hard puncher, Carlos had 61 KO's, and retired with his title after 14 title defenses, Nov 7 1970 until his retirement on Aug 29 1977.

 

Upper division forays and successes do have their merits but I totally agree that they don’t necessarily equal, if at all, the successes of particular champions or even certain contenders in any of the said divisions.

There are certain attributes in themselves that can lend to some fighters being able to move through several divisions and remain viable but often the application is brief and selective. Sort of like a Jack of all trades but a master of none. Particularly IF they’re not settling in said divisions and proving their dominance over all and sundry - no mean feat to dominate EVERYONE at your deemed BEST weight.

MWs like Monzon and Hagler proved their greatness at 160 lb. That’s all the was needed. The measure of P4P is what you achieve relative to your BEST weight.

It’s true that Tommy had certain attributes that were great for transcending his BEST weight but remember, he was no longer fighting at his BEST weight. While still effective in upper divisions to a degree, he also no longer held the optimal P4P ratio and his skills weren’t, relatively, as effective.

Hypothetically, even if Carlos and Marv didn’t succeed at LH to the degree that Hearns did, it doesn’t take from the calculation otherwise of their superiority over Hearns at the 160 lb MW limit.

 

LMAO, watch how tommy keeps Duran and Leonard at the end of his jab. And plastered Roldan (no thumbing required). Hagler couldn't do that. Hell, Hagler struggled w/ Mugabi. Hagler was technically sound (for his era) and pieced combinations together very well, but he was not known for hand speed. He beat Hearns on the inside because he was winging wild punches that were landing sooner and more accurately than Hearns'. But it was Hearns who imposed the slugfest.

Hagler didn't have Monzon's strength or durability. He was significantly less skilled. Watch how Monzon coasted against guys on Hagler's level: Griffith, Briscoe, Valdez.

Part of Hagler's allure was that he was only just slightly better than the crude brawlers he defended against. He had to really hustle for it, while monzon sometimes gave the impression he was simply clocking in and clocking out of a 9-5 job.

 

Hagler had one of the greatest chins in boxing history and had far more skill than Monzon he stoped all of his world title opponents aside from Leonard and Duran, his head movement was far better than Monzon`s. All Monzon had over Hagler was a one inch reach advantage, plus he was taller.

 

Roldan was 20 when Carlos had his last fight (assuming that was the fight he sparred him for). Roldan turned pro a year and a half later. Roldan had a decent amateur career and at a guess I'd say Monzon was helping him along. The full story would make interesting reading.

 

I remember that moment well

Monzon momentarily lost control of himself and kept looking at the clock because he was in so much trouble

Briscoe moved in slow motion compared to Hearns and was never in trouble himself!

Even more reason why I like his chances , not only to win but for a knockout win

 

you must have missed rounds 2 and 3 of that fight

Hagler did very well with Tommy from the outside, out jabbing Hearns

In fact, the very punch that knocked tommy off balance came from the outside!

In reality, many of Hagler's jabs snapping Tommy's head leading up to the knockout

it really just depends on how you want to recount the actual contest

but the facts show that Hagler dominated, whether it be from the outside or at close quarters

Monzon, does not have nearly the same versatility as Hagler. and no potent right hook to end a fight quickly

Monzon's power is vastly overrated. Look how many of his challengers went to the late rounds or lasted the distance including the ancient Emile Griffith and robotic, slow mo Briscoe

 

Hearns damaged his right hand that he had been landing a lot until then.