1962 Sonny Liston vs 1982 Gerry Cooney, 15 Rounds.

Ingo smoked him in 1 round. Liston looks lost trying to put Machen away. This isn't Gene Tunney or Tyson Fury in there, it's Eddie Machen.

Yet Cooney's win's over Lyle, Norton and Young are out-right dismissed.

Your blatant bias is showing.

If Liston had all those attributes you claim where they against Clay!? Why did he resort to blinding Ali?

Liston was owned by the Mob, as we saw with Carnera and others, sometimes Mob-owned fighters do very, very well independent of their own ability. While he was far better than Carnera, watching him unravel TWICE against Ali raises a lot of questions.

But why ponder those when we can discuss why Liston refused to fight Quarry, when Quarry responded to Liston's call-out?

 

Why did you say Foreman-Young and not Cooney-Young? Oh, right, because Cooney tore Young's face apart with his jab and stopped him in four.

 

And yet Mildenberger was stopped on his feet (on cuts) in double-digit rounds. Foreman didn't last that long.

I dunno where you got the idea smaller gloves reduce punching power. Some fighters are less comfortable throwing at full force, but MMA proves smaller gloves brings more KOs.

Look how Floyd survived Conor's uppercut early in the fight. A punch that decked Nate Diaz. In 4 oz. gloves that punch would've starched Floyd.

My bias is for the truth. Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. I am not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I don't get why grown men become emotionally attached to pro-athletes (they never knew) and any healthy skepticism is responded to with scorn.

 

So you think Marty Marshall hit harder than Cooney?

You want me gone? Let's make a poll in the general forum as to who has the harder puncher, Marshall or Cooney. If Marshall is chosen, I'll leave. If Cooney is chosen, you leave.

Sound good?

 

Basically we are watching grown men idolize fighters who lived generations ago like teenage girls idolize pop stars. It's very unhealthy, in fact, it's super disturbing. But thanks to the internet, we have the distance to enjoy their bizarre behavior and watch them writhe in anger when confronted with reality.

 

Who did Williams stop that was better than Jimmy Young? Norton? Lyle?

Who did Williams beat, period, that we should be impressed with?

You want me gone, make that poll. When it blows up in your face, I'll give you a second chance with this one.

 

If Gerry Cooney from 1982 fought Sonny Liston from 1962 ... Cooney wins.

Cooney had an excellent jab (as pointed out earlier, he cut Jimmy Young to pieces with it). Liston had an excellent jab. (Many examples, but nearly all of them against MUCH smaller fighters than Cooney.)

Neither ever went 15 rounds. But Cooney had very good endurance ... as he went 13 rounds with a prime Larry Holmes and took tons of hard shots along the way ... and Liston had good endurance going 12 with Eddie Machen (who wasn't in Larry Holmes' class but still good).

Cooney had a murderous left hook. So did Liston. But breaking Ron Lyle's ribs and leaving Ken Norton sitting on the ropes like he'd been hit in the head with an axe was more impressive than Liston beating Floyd Patterson or Roy "Cut and Shoot" Harris.

Honestly, I don't see Liston being any bigger of a threat than Young, Lyle or Norton were to Cooney when he faced them. Liston wasn't even as big as any of them.

Cooney was in his prime in his 20s. Liston was an older guy. Cooney was huge, Liston was smaller than most Cooney opponents. Liston often seemed like a big fighter but that's because guys like Albert Westphal were Canelo's size.

If Cooney had faced Floyd Patterson in 1962, Cooney would've wiped Floyd out early, too. If Liston's first title challenge came against 1982 Larry Holmes, I doubt Sonny even lasts 13 rounds. Holmes that night would've beaten the living hell out of Sonny Liston. Holmes was on point that evening. As sharp as he ever was.

Cooney and Liston seem to have a lot of similarities, except Cooney was a half a foot taller and 10 to 15 pounds heavier.

I'd lean towards Cooney - early or late. However it works out.

 

Foreman did not last that long-against possibly the GOAT in an extremely skilled performance?
We know this is because of a unique combination of circumstances including the rope-a-dope.
Ali had an excellent KO% in his first career despite being a mover, not a power puncher.

MMA fights involve being able to strike many different ways, including with the legs & feet.
Even how fights are called off via submissions are different.
Many have written here about the research regarding glove size-look it up.
It is speculation about whether Floyd would have survived a punch another fighter was decked by.

I showed you in several posts where your bias was.
You want to show you are NOT biased-go back & reply to all the specifics I wrote.

Also as per your insulting thought: where do you see I am emotionally attached to what athlete?
Be specific, say why.
I wrote several things about Mildenburger, which you *ignored*.
I was never a particular fan of his, so you are projecting about your own clear prejudices.

Now you implied the post I responded to showed SCORN.
Again, show intellectual rigor: where in the post I replied to above do you see any evidence of scorn?

 

It's actually hilarious that anyone is bringing up Cooney's wins over Young, Lyle and Norton as if they mean anything. All three were shot to hell and the only one who'd had a meaningful win in years was Young, who'd beaten Foreman three years earlier. Both Norton and Lyle retired after those fights. The idea that Liston would struggle with any of those three, or that they're better than the best fighters on Liston's record is laughable. It wasn't a coincidence that the only notable names on Cooney's record prior to facing Holmes were washed up. The first live body he ever faced in Holmes gave him a beating and totally derailed his career. I wouldn't pick Cooney to last the distance against either Patterson or Johansson, much less Liston.

 

Nobody said Liston would struggle with them. Cooney didn't struggle with them.

I said if 1982 fought Patterson in 1962 he'd likely destroy Floyd, too. And if Liston fought 1982 Larry Holmes in Sonny's first challenge at the heavyweight title, I doubt Liston would last 13 rounds like Cooney did.

1982 Larry Holmes was a lot more difficult to beat than Floyd Patterson in 1962. I think Floyd had been down 10 times in his previous four fights.

Liston had a lot of strengths. Cooney had many of the same strengths. Both had strong jabs. Both had strong left hooks.

The primary difference was size. Cooney was much bigger.

1982 Cooney vs 1962 Liston is a good fight. But I'd lean toward Cooney.

 

Cooney wouldn't have to go the distance with them. I think Floyd was down 10 times in the four fights before Liston.

 

Based on what though? Cooney never proved he could beat an actual live body, and Liston had a much better chin, and was a much less one dimensional fighter.

Sure, but again the 1962 Patterson was still a higher caliber of fighter than Cooney ever proved he could hang with. I don't doubt that Cooney could floor Patterson, but I'm more skeptical that he could keep him down. I'm also doubtful if Cooney could take Patterson's power.

There I have to disagree with you. Liston had much better boxing skills, a better chin, and better two fisted power. He also used his jab much more effectively and consistently than Cooney did. The only real advantage Cooney has is size. But I don't see him imposing that size effectively because Liston's power would have him on the defensive and I don't think Cooney would be able to outmuscle and maul Liston on the inside without taking damage. Despite being big and powerful, he wasn't a very physical fighter.

 

Liston was far more capable of adapting to a fighter's style than Cooney ever dreamed of being. Holmes' jab drove him nuts, Liston's would have nailed him to the canvas. Cooney just didn't have the prowess or chin to really get anywhere with Liston. I pick both him and Patterson to stop Cooney; Spinks didn't hit any harder than Patterson.

 

Leotis Martin didn't hit harder than Cooney. See what I did there?

It's 1982 Cooney vs. 1962 Liston.

A fight between #1 contender Gerry Cooney vs. #1 contender Sonny Liston.

Cooney coming off wins over Young, Lyle and Norton vs. the Liston coming off wins over Eddie Machen, Howard King and Albert Westphal.

 

Right. Whose "style" did Liston "adapt" to again?

When did Liston have to implement a PLAN B because "what he usually did" didn't work?

Side Note: Rubbing liniment on Liston's gloves doesn't count as Sonny "adapting" to another fighter's style.