1962 Sonny Liston vs 1982 Gerry Cooney, 15 Rounds.

Hahahaha! he was Ring's Comeback Fighter of the Year in 1981! His post-Cooney win streak was only snapped against a vintage Page. You know, the OTHER guy everyone wonders why Holmes would never fight?

He made have had personal issues outside the ring. But that's most fighters, especially Cooney.

Whatever Young was doing, Cooney was doing too.... except training. While Young was training, Cooney was banging hotties. The dude never had legs because he was the definitive lothario. You, me, Liston, and Young would be, too, if we had those looks. Can't fault a man for using what God gave him. But it caught up to him against Holmes. At least he fought like a man and didn't quit on his stool.

Machen was never anything special. He had been smoked by the very raw and primitive, albeit amazingly gifted, Johannson. He was much smaller and physically inferior to Young. His best win was over a 19 year old Quarry. Funny how no one was demanding for rematch when Quarry hit his stride several years later.

 

There is A LOT wrong with this thread.

What caught my eye was that you were comparing Liston-Machen to Foreman-Young.

Foreman was in shatters post Ali. Clancy talks about this extensively. When George launched his comeback, he called Clancy. Clancy declined because of how George had failed him when Gil tried to resuscitate his carerr.

The fight was fought in balmy Puerto Rico, very different than Texas. Clancy wanted Foreman to arrived well in advance of the fight to acclimate to the climate. Foreman, per usual, refused to take the wise sage's advice. He paid the price. He wasn't ready for Young mentally of physically.

Machen showed off a slim degree of skill and lots of survival instincts, and lasted 12 rounds longer agains the massive, Philadelphia-trained Liston than he had against Johansson.

Sonny couldn't cut off the ring. He kept swatting for Machen's head. He never really attacked the body, he didn't set up his power shots well. I would love for you to tell me what adjustments and skills Liston demonstrated.

Honestly, it's been a while since i watched the fight. Mostly I haven't returned to it because of how unimpressed I was with Liston. Boxing was in its Dark Ages.

 

Foreman v Young was a perfectly relevant and apt analogy as per my post.

But great call on Cooney v 3 years older, 32 yo, 10 lb heavier and that much less difficult to hit Young who, blinded by his own blood, unable to see the punches, with Cooney letting it hang out, was not really hurt let alone put down by Cooney.

Yeah, no wonder I dodged any reference to that fight.

 

LOL. There isn’t a LOT wrong with a thread just because other posters present opposing and well backed opinions.

I know what the climate was in Puerto Rico. I’ve referenced it before in other threads. Foreman was doing better in his comeback fights than you’re suggesting. His 2nd dismantling of Frazier was impressive as was his stoppage of never before knocked down, let alone stopped Ledoux.

Of course the heat effected George but he was still being outboxed and outfoxed beforehand. Meanwhile George was pushing, lacing and hitting on the break - did Liston try that on v Machen? Surely you’re aware of the issues that an even smaller, defensive minded Peralta gave to a younger Foreman which saw George unable to secure the KO and exhausted by fight’s end - I don’t think there were any climate or mental issues to reach for there.

Machen was an excellent boxer, suggesting he wasn’t to make a false point doesn’t change that fact.

Liston could KO guys but if they pointedly evaded him he could still elect to soundly outbox them rather than shooting his load and falling in a heap. That’s adaptability whether you understand it or not.

 

Because like you said, he didn't need to! Nothing disgraceful here! He would go on to defend his titles against the number 3# contender in ken norton before facing his mandatory challenger Muhammad Ali!

For one thing, though George was stopped by Ali it was more from exhaustion.
For another, Mildenberger was knocked down in rounds five, eight, and ten. Mildenberger's left eye was badly cut in the sixth round and almost completely closed by the eighth round.
Oh and At the time of the stoppage, Referee Teddy Waltham had Ali ahead 7-2-2, and Judges Felix Ohlet and Nat Fleischer (editor of The Ring magazine) each had Ali leading 7-3-1. The Associated Press had Ali in front 9-1-1.
I don't see why you would say Ali had a rough tough fight with him.
Yes, he did say in 1973 his most difficult was Mildenberger, before changing his opinion over and over again, claiming later it was frazier ex.....
For a third, Jimmy Young was a pure a boxer. He was IMO the best defensive heavyweight of his time, and one of the best in history. He was also a brilliant fighter in the ring, one of the best boxing IQ’s ever - in the Mayweather class.
He doesn’t normally get mentioned with the names that most people think of when they recall the great heavyweights of the Golden Age. But he beat a surprising number of them, and gave the others terrific fights.
Oh and George Foreman’s loss to Jimmy Young also came from heatstroke and failure to prepare for the climate in Puerto Rico. And the fact he paced himself, fighting in a newfound measured style he adopted after his loss to Ali.

Actually i think his stoppage win over the durable ernie terrel was a good one and btw Cleveland williams himself is a greater fighter than Cooney.
And he is ranked by boxrec #25 while Cooney is #79.
Why would Foreman's claim that the big cat could bang unbeleivably hard be ridiculous and not the one where he said Cooney could punch as well???
Can you read his mind??

 

The issue is that Liston had Machen hurt and could not put him away. And Machen's defense, while respectable, is being grossly exaggerated just like Williams' power.

Liston's competition was absolute garbage. Many were much smaller, none were ATG's.

While Cooney's record pales compared to those of men like Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Holmes and Tyson, it's much better than Liston's.

Forget the fact that the Cw division had been introduced during Cooney's era, the Light Heavyweights of his era were bigger and better than most of the men Liston faced. Spinks would've made short work of guys like Machen, Martin, and Williams.

Hell, if Matthew Saad Muhammad or Yaqui Lopez had fought in Liston's era, you'd be bragging about Sony beating them, too. Acting like those were bigger wins than anything on Cooney's record!

 

Gerry Cooney's only claim to fame was abusing 2 relic fighters, Jimmy Young and Ken Norton.

 

Who do you rate as India's greatest bowler and batsman and what exactly made them great?

 

Patterson was the sport's first two time champ (and only 27 against Sonny)...in fact, he just missed becoming three-time champ when robbed against Ellis. And that was years after Liston pounded the **** out of him. Twice.

So, there's one young ATG Sonny beat, consummately. Twice.

I think this is moneytheclown's alter ego.

 

He was 2x because he lost it. In brutal fashion to Ingo. And he would have never won it back, and perhaps retired, had Ingo not quit training. Once Ingo won the title he was finished with the sport.

Ingo was much smaller than Liston. Ingo had very limited experience. He wasn't brought up in Philly. Yet he handled Patterson just as easily as Liston.

Patterson would have remained a Light Heavyweight in Cooney's era.

 

It's not even a question, but a most magnificent one, none the less.

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For Americans, I would compare it to both baseball and tennis. More difficult than both in terms of physical challenges, and strategic placement.

 

And bowler?

 

I like Anil Kumble. Batting is our strenth, but he was great. Unlike Baseball it's not about speed. It's more like American bowling or shuffle board. Kumble had the most creative ways of taking down wickets.

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batters are like brawlers/big punchers in Boxing. Bowlers are like pure-boxers. Unsung heroes in India.

 

You had some good quickies tho. Who would be your fave couple of quickies? Yeah Kumble was a heck of a performer.