True or false did we miss out on seeing true peak Ali?

Bonus answer - no. At least, I think we got his best years between 1937 and 1942 (23 to nearly 28 years old). That period was his absolute prime. If he boxed on for the rest of 1942, he'd have made a few more defenses and might have continued to look as good but he was likely to have started to slip a little as he entered his very late 20s. That's speculation, of course. But we definitely saw his peak years is what I'm saying.

 

Ali had only been 25 for a month or so when he made his final defense of his first title reign against Zora Folley. So we can reasonably assume that the rest of '67, '68 and into '69 (up to the age of 27) would have been peak physical years for him if he'd stayed active as a boxer.

 

Ali was 27/28 when he returned to boxing. If you honestly think a 27/28 year old heavyweight who wasn't hit much up until that time was past his prime then you clearly don"T know much about boxing ( By "You" I don't mean you MixedMartialLaw I mean any body who thinks a 28 year boxer is past their prime).

Ali was at his peak for his Frazier fights, Norton fights, and Foreman fight.

 

He was still 28. Isn't it funny how Ali is old at 28 but no other heavyweight gets that free pass? Ali was only what 1 year older than both Ken Norton and Joe Frazier? Also doing those 3 years Ali was in exile he wasn't getting hit so his body was being damaged. Joe Frazier and Ken Norton were being hit. Guys like Ron Lyle was older than Ali when they fought. I never heard anybody say well the only reason Ron Lyle lost was because he was old.

Let's remove George Foreman's loses to Tommy Morrison and Evander Holyfield because he was over 40 when both of these loses happened. Let's remove Tyson Fury and Joshua off Wlad's lose record.

But anyway Ali was still in his prime. He was just fighting much better fighters than he was facing earlier on his career. Not just better when it comes to skills but better as in they weren't 180 to 190 pound guys like Ali was facing before.

 

It’s possible that Ali had plateaued by age 25 with another 3 years or so maintained prime ahead of him.

However, his mobility and upper body swivels, being his most important defensive assets, might’ve had an earlier expiry date than the rest of his other prime attributes. Meaning, if those assets hadn’t slightly down turned already (as at 67), we might’ve seen them decline during the years 67-70 anyway.

In any context it was no mean feat to dance extravagantly and move otherwise like Ali did. I think the period Ali could’ve maintained the leg work and upper body agility at its absolute best would’ve been somewhat limited as compared to his other assets.

If there were still even more improvements to Ali’s game that we missed out on during the 3 1/2 year hiatus, what could we imagine those to perhaps have been?

 

Ali wouldn't have gotten any better. He relied on speed and reflexes, and those don't get better as you age.

 

What?

 

In 67 against Williams and Folley his timing, speed, maneuvering, distance all had excelled and were increasing, certainly for another two years with him taking almost no punches, in his peak years theres no reason to think there would have been a decline. In 69, fat and not having trained for a long time he went into a full sparring against Jeff Merritt on a whim ( Jeff broke Shavers jaw) and after a few minutes found his timing and battered Jeff to a stoppage but by the time he stepped in against Quarry in 70, while his speed was still great those other abilities had decreased a little and never were seen at those levels again.

 

Sure, I’m isolating it to leg speed/mobility and fast upper body manoeuvrings = the crux of Ali’s prime defence.

We know he suffered for the loss of same in his comeback = more punishment or at least the commencement of significant punishment.

That’s cool if you can see Ali maintaining same through an active 67-70 and that’s not impossible. No argument there.

I just feel that those particular attributes are arguably the most taxing on a fighter’s resources and probably best accommodated only up to a relatively young age that might poke its head into the start of a fighters overall prime (as deemed) but not see their way through along with other prime features such as hand speed, hand/eye coordination, timing etc.

Ali’s prime mobility took some serious absolute peak fuel to maintain, not necessarily required by his other prime attributes.

Mobility I would think is more difficult to maintain for HWs than their lighter counterparts and in Ali’s case he was progressively coming in a bit heavier with natural increases in his overall size which would’ve tapped his energy that bit more.

 

Your posts never fail to make me laugh

 

But when a fighter is inactive at 25 0r 26, and lecturing around the country at different colleges, fighting his Draft Evasion in court also gaining lots of weight, it takes a toll om the body. Sparring is not the same as actual ring activity, there is no head gear in an actual match. I have followed Muhammad Ali since 1965, he looked out of sorts in his comeback fights in 1970, his stamina from 1964-1967 were long gone, so were his legs, sure the competition was better, but what good is it if your skills are gone, it is like handcuffing a fighter and throwing him in the ring. When Ali came back, he layed on the ropes too much, he never layed on the ropes in 1967.

 

All good points, Richard! Also Ali lost precious experience during that layoff. I think around 1969 we very well may have seen some things from him that we had never seen before, a still young Ali, still with his leg stamina, with more experience, and more confidence in the ring. We'll never know, but we do know that, when considering a boxer's prime, age is certainly not the only factor.

 

I think your assessment is correct, but I will tell you what is on my mind.

His last fight before he went into the army, was the second Abe Simon fight, and that is one of his best filmed performances.

Yes he was only going to go down hill, but he might just have had three or four more performances of that quality left in him!

 

There is no greater teacher than experience.