What are your scorecards & opinions on Holmes vs. Witherspoon-& vs. Williams.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Entaowed, Dec 24, 2021.


Do you think one or both decisions were wrong or unfair?

  1. Yes, BOTH should have gone to the challenger.

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%

  2. Yes, but only Witherspoon should have gotten the win & title.

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%

  3. Yes, but only Williams should have won the fight & title.

    2 vote(s)
    14.3%

  4. No, Holmes clearly at least edged both fights.

    9 vote(s)
    64.3%

  5. No, because they were both too close to call, or if a draw, would keep Holmes Champ.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  6. I am unsure, both fights were too close to call.

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%

  7. The fight with Witherspoon could have been fairly decided either way.

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%

  8. The fight will Williams could have been argued either way.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  9. WHATEVER my opinion, the as a group the judges did not have defensible score cards.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    And how close do you think the judges got to reality?
    I do not consider myself a skilled scorer at all.
    So I leave it to others. My ancient take away was that Holmes may have pulled it out against Witherspoon-or the last couple rounds may have weighed heavily on the Judges-but at least 2 of the 3 referees had plausible scorecards. One was clearly biased to make it a 7 point differential in favor of the Champ.
    If you buy Terrible Tim's opinion stated here about how how he neck rolled to minimize impact, maybe you give him the nod. Here are other's opinions after the official verdict:
    [url]https://eyeonthering.com/boxing/crown-affair-larry-holmes-vs-tim-witherspoon[/url]

    My primitive skills in assessment supported the instinct that "The Truth" deserved to be crowned HW King.
    Again Holmes did better in the last 2 rounds. The opposite of when he was older & faded against McCall & Holyfield...But I am skeptical that it was enough to deserve the nod & 48-0.
    CERTAINLY not the 7 point spread that 2 of 3 judges had it at!
    [url]https://eyeonthering.com/boxing/quest-glory-larry-holmes-vs-carl-williams[/url]

    If you believe either verdict was not defensible, do you think corruption was involved or some sort of psychologist bias?

    Note that you can select two (2) choices.
    I want people to use the second to respond to the last query-IF regardless of how you feel the fights should have been called, the judges were biased or showed poor judgement in their scoring!
     
    Entaowed, Dec 24, 2021
    Entaowed, Dec 24, 2021
    #1
  2. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Son of a Beach: my carefully honed 7 point poll vanished! :error:

    OK, tell us IF you believe Williams or Witherspoon should have gotten the nod.
    And regardless, if as a group you feel the official verdicts that are hyperlinked were mistaken or biased.
    Also if you are unsure or it was too close to call or felt a draw was in order-say which fights, & why.
     
    Entaowed, Dec 24, 2021
    Entaowed, Dec 24, 2021
    #2
  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I think the Witherspoon fight could have gone either way. Witherspoon was not as experienced as Holmes but he fought like an experienced fighter. I've scored this one both ways on different occasions.

    The Williams fight was close too, but over the 15 distance I think Holmes bagged enough rounds to win, but he looked tired and old and beat up at the end of the fight.
     
    Unforgiven, Dec 25, 2021
    Unforgiven, Dec 25, 2021
    #3
  4. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I though Holmes won both by a nose. His experience perhaps being the difference. He was definitely no longer training like he once had. He didn't look good.
     
    ETM, Dec 25, 2021
    ETM, Dec 25, 2021
    #4
  5. Moggy94

    Moggy94 Active Member Full Member

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    I remember thinking Holmes beat Witherspoon while Williams deserved the victory over Holmes.
     
    Moggy94, Dec 25, 2021
    Moggy94, Dec 25, 2021
    #5
  6. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    Would have to re-score the Williams fight but I watched the Witherspoon fight recently and thought Holmes won pretty clear, like 8 rounds to 4.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Dec 25, 2021
    Pugilist_Spec, Dec 25, 2021
    #6
  7. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Mar 2, 2006
    Holmes v Witherspoon - 116-114 Holmes

    Holmes v Williams - 145-142 Williams

    Holmes and Witherspoon was a tough and close one, but can't say I agree with the Holmes - Williams decision at all. Especially the one-sided score of 2 of the judges.
     
    scartissue, Dec 25, 2021
    scartissue, Dec 25, 2021
    #7
    JohnThomas1 likes this.
  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    In my travels the Williams verdict seems to be more hotly disputed than the Witherspoon one.
     
    JohnThomas1, Dec 25, 2021
    JohnThomas1, Dec 25, 2021
    #8
    scartissue likes this.
  9. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I had both two points in favor of Holmes. Neither challenger held up well into the final rounds imo, and that was what decided it for the champion imo. Williams looked better longer.
     
    RulesMakeItInteresting, Dec 25, 2021
    RulesMakeItInteresting, Dec 25, 2021
    #9
  10. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Both fights were very close .. Witherspoon fought the fight of his life despite his lack of experience against a slightly faded but still very good Holmes ... Larry was a bit overconfident and Tim gave him hell but Larry edged him out .. that 9th round was terrific .. Holmes showed why he is and all time great with as much heart as anyone ..

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    Keep in mind that Witherspoon was the younger man ..

    Williams was a huge guy , very fast and well conditioned , again light on fights but very difficult stylistic match up for an aging champion .. I remember thinking Holmes won but it was very tough and close ..
     
    he grant, Dec 25, 2021
    he grant, Dec 25, 2021
    #10
    RulesMakeItInteresting likes this.