Oleksandr Usyk vs Jack Johnson, with poll

Usyk win this one easily if Johnson fought
the way he does on film.
If Johnson was born 1910's 20's and above
with more of a modern skill set with his physicality
it could be different.

 

Gloved boxing was the main form of boxing starting in 1892. Techniques develop and evolve over time.

Now i do not believe that techniques develop indefinitely. I think modern boxing technique had developed significantly by the mid to late 1930's (the beginning of Joe Louis era). Most modern techniques including defense (hands up, chin down), counter punching, combination punching, complex footwork, cutting the ring against a clever boxer, circling away from your opponents best punch etc. were developed by then.

I think the likes of Joe Louis, SRR, Archie Moore etc. are just as technically skilled as their modern counterparts. So while every generation has a few fighters who introduce new things (such as Fury almost redefining the speed and footwork expected of a super heavyweight), i believe boxing techniques evolved about as much as possible within the first 45-50 years of gloved boxing. That's why i consider Joe Louis to be a different class than the great heavyweights before him.

Now Johnson is one of the most important historical figures in boxing. But techniques were still in infancy when he was fighting. A lot of his opponents did not know how to properly cut the ring against him ala Frazier or Armstrong (among others). A lot of them just followed him in straight lines throwing 1-2 punches at a time. Johnson, against such offense, could simply block punches in the air.

That kind of defense is much harder when you have a skilled 220 lb fighter like Usyk who is using all sorts of weird angles and throwing powerful lefts from an awkward southpaw stance. Usyk is not going to throw 1-2 punches at a time, he will punch in combinations. His footwork and defense is more complex than anything Johnson has seen.

Johnson was a wonderful athlete and he was a big man by his era's standards. But he could be decked even by smaller men. I would bet good money that Usyk hits harder than any of Johnson's title opponents (including the aging Jefferies). I don't think Johnson could handle a modern fighter with the footwork, awkward angles, potent left hand and excellent combinations of Usyk.

Some people vastly underrate past fighters and think boxing is always improving. Not true. I think the 70's was the deepest era in heavyweight boxing followed by the 90's. I think Joe Louis would beat most heavyweights that came after him. I don't think boxing is always improving though there are all time great fighters in every generation.

I would favour Usyk to outbox even someone like Jack Dempsey. However, Dempsey with his more modern style, bobbing and weaving, throwing big left hooks and combinations, would stand a better chance vs Usyk than Johnson would.

I can't see Johnson, if transported by a time machine, being able to deal with a superior boxer like Usyk. IMO Usyk wins a UD, probably a 9-3 or even a 10-2 decision.

And that is no knock on Johnson. If it wasn't for a Johnson, we may never have had later great champions. The early boxers from the 1890's, 1900's, 10's and 20's helped pioneer the techniques that later champions improved upon and perfected. We may not have a Mike Tyson style if it wasn't for Jack Dempsey. Its just that Tyson took Dempsey's style and refined it further.

Now if you bring Johnson in the modern era as a 20 year old, give him a great trainer, modern nutrition, 100's of hours of footage to study and learn from, and 5-7 years of training, he may beat everyone today.

But a time machine transportation? Usyk UD 12, 10 rounds to 2.

 

I have an amateur record of 250-0 with four Olympic gold medals.

EDIT: in my mind

 

i think classic boxing forum regular posters generally tend to be fair to modern and historical fighters. Of course, there is some bias in favour of older fighters, but not substantial IMO. I remember a thread a year ago where someone picked Usyk to beat Schmeling and other 30's heavyweights not named Joe Louis and pretty much everyone in classic agreed with it.

I like the general forum but over there, they tend to massively underrate historical fighters. So overall i think classic boxing forum posters tend to be the most fair. And i think it makes sense, we have a huge appreciation for past and present fighters.

 

Usyk

 

No point in that poll because non of these forums bums have been in a boxing gym.

 

Not even a draw? Did anybody go the distance?

 

Voted Usyk and frankly I think he knocks Johnson out. I've never been too impressed by fighters from that era and JJ is par for the course. The only giants around at that time were novelty items and nowhere near as skilled as Usyk. I mean Willard, who is simply awful on film, managed to beat JJ for crying out aloud.

 

If i have to be honest I am a little biased towards modern fighters. To me is seems obvious that they have synthesized the best of the ideas that the old timers were still exploring and that as a result modern guys are much more effective. In essence they are standing on the shoulders of the old timers. I also agree that if you brought some of the best of those rootin tootin pioneers into a modern gym young enough, that they'd have been every bit as good if not better than their modern counterparts.

 

Horrible mismatch. Absolutely horrible. Usyk by annihilation under 30 seconds.

 

Usyk, because of the ruleset. In Johnson's era it may be different.