An unbiased look at AJ's top 10 opponents

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by NEETzschean, Dec 26, 2021.


  1. bbjc

    bbjc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Tony thompson and joyce havent beat better than joshua. Same could probably be said for wilder.
     
  2. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic Our pope is the Holy Spirit Full Member

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    Wins:
    1. Wladimir Klitscho
    2. Andy Ruiz jr.
    3. Alexander Povetkin
    4. Joseph Parker
    5. Dillian White
    6. Charles Martin
    7. Kubrat Pulev
    8. Carlos Takam
    9. Dominic Breazeale
    10. Eric Molina

    Losses:
    1. Oleksandr Osyk
    2. Andy Ruiz jr.
     
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  3. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    I'm bending over backwards to be fair to AJ so I can't include the Covid affliction that Pulev may have been suffering from. Pulev is the type to make excuses and did so after the Wlad fight.
     
  4. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Wilder and Joyce haven't lost to worse than Andy Ruiz.
     
  5. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    You can be critical of anyone's resume but my piece isn't a hitjob; it's a collection of stats and facts: home/away, A-side/B-side, age, activity, stances, heights, competitiveness of fights, rounds etc. I don't refer to AJ's opponents as "bums" or claim that his resume "sucks".
     
  6. jaytxxl

    jaytxxl Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I understand what you did I’m just simply stating that on paper especially in the HW division you can literally nitpick any of their resume’s. The two guys who you really can’t are universally recognized as 1 and 2 in Ali and Joe Louis.
     
  7. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    The same can be done to American heroes Ali and Joe Louis. It's futile to compare between eras though.
     
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  8. Reg

    Reg Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    AJs resume not being great doesn't mean it isn't the best at HW. Who had a better resume for those years that Ajs was being hyped as the best?
     
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  9. bbjc

    bbjc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Joyce hasnt really fought anyone yet. Andy ruiz is better more established than anyone joyce has beat or even fought. Same could be said for wilder. Ruiz is better than stiverne etc. Ortiz the only one that could be argued....a fight wilder lost almost every round. Plus ortiz was 40 years old plus.
     
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  10. Quina74

    Quina74 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'll gladly concede that Chisora 1 and Mcdermott 1 were when Fury was green but the rest is objectively true. I like how you pick out the most irrelevant part in what I said as well. The stuff about Furys Wlad and Wilder wins are true (his best wins)
     
  11. douglas1

    douglas1 New Member banned Full Member

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  12. KidDynamite

    KidDynamite Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    You can do it to Louis and Ali too

    It is what it is
     
  13. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    If you're not going to even try to be objective with your points then why should I bother arguing. My piece isn't a polemic.
     
  14. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Fury by any sensible metric and it's not close.

    AJ has a better win than Wilder (41 year old 17 months inactive Wlad) but Wilder's wins over southpaw Ortiz would be 2 of AJ's best 4. And Wilder didn't lose to an Andy Ruiz, let alone is such a devastating and humiliating fashion (dropped 4 times and quit) so it's not clear cut between them.
     
  15. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Jennings would beat Ruiz on styles and 6'5 KO artist Dubois is a far more dangerous fighter, reflected in the respective odds.

    Is late sub Ruiz better than champ Stiverne? The former beat AJ but maybe Ruiz isn't that good and AJ was exposed. Stiverne did better in the amateurs (beat Price and Helenius, didn't lose to Mike Wilson) has more height and reach, was in better shape and is a much bigger puncher. Compare Stiverne's performances against a prime/near-prime Arreola to Ruiz's against a 40 year old, coming off a loss, 18 months inactive version: Stiverne comfortably outboxed Arreola and then blasted him out in 6, Ruiz got dropped, almost dropped twice, hurt multiple times and couldn't even wobble him. Ruiz also couldn't wobble the ghost of Liakhovich who gave him a competitive fight and tends to go the distance with journeymen, even some chinny ones. It's far from conclusive that Ruiz is better than Stiverne and both are similar stylistically.

    Wilder isn't typically an outboxer (though he won every virtually round against Stiverne 1, Duhaupas and Arreola) and isn't a boxer-puncher: he's a KO artist sniper who doesn't care how many rounds you win before he switches your lights off, taking you deep and allowing you to gain confidence was always part of the plan. You are making the same mistake that most boxing fans do when it comes to him because he's a specialist who can't be judged by those standards.

    Ortiz was officially 39 and 40.5, Povetkin was 39, Wlad was 41 and inactive. These are the 4 best opponents on the combined records of Wilder and AJ. All were vastly experienced, all were highly skilled, all could punch (especially Wlad) and Ortiz is a southpaw. All dangerous men regardless of age.