Larry Holmes - Overrated or Underrated?

The same case could be said to Larry, He was pre-prime when Norton fought him. I can't see the case of how he gets overrated. He is definitely top 3 easy imo. He beat:

Ken Norton
Earnie Shavers
Undefeated Ossie Ocasio
Undefeated Renaldo Snipes
Undefeated David Bey
Undefeated Tim Witherspoon
Undefeated Carl Williams
Undefeated Gerry Cooney
Mike Weaver
James "Boncrusher" Smith
Trevor Berbick
Tex Cobb
Alfredo Evangelista (best performance)
Leon Spinks

And past his prime he beat:

Undefeated Ray Mercer
Jesse Ferguson
Maurice Harris

What's the matter losing to Michael Spinks? Holmes was very old by than an arguably avenged his loss. Had 20 title defense which is the closest to Joe Louis.

 

I feel like just losing to Michael Spinks is the most dumbest reason to discredit him from being top 3 or saying he's overrated.

 

Ali #1
Louis #2
Lewis #3
Holmes #4
Wlad #5
Foreman #6
... season to taste with Marciano, Holyfield, Liston, Tyson, Frazier and maybe Vitali at #10

 

I think this is harsh.

 

And that is your right, but the bottom line is that there is nothing in the resume that justifies anything anywhere near the top three. It cannot be justified except as a subjective judgement of Holmes head to head abilities.

 

It’s a great debate.

I’m loving reading all of the posts. It’s very entertaining. But I just think that you’ve been a bit harsh that’s all.

A quick example: Michael Spinks

Sure, he was a former LHW, but I think that he proved that he was a credible HW.

They were also extremely close and controversial fights, and Larry was at an advanced age, where he’d fought almost 50 times.

So I think it’s a bit disingenuous to just claim that he lost to a LHW.

It wasn’t as simple as that.

I think that you could rip anyone’s resume apart if you really wanted to.

I understand that you think that the number 3 spot might be too high, but I can’t agree that he was only good enough to POSSIBLY have made the top 10.

I respect your opinion, but I don’t agree, and I’d love to know who your top 10 are.

I couldn’t rank 10 guys higher. Especially not with how you’ve analysed the wins.

 

The problem here of using the kind of criteria that you are using to discredit the credibility of the opponents that a particular fighter has fought is that if you were of that mind, you could apply that to just about every highly regarded heavyweight champion in history and somehow find fault in many if not the majority of the opponents on the list of fighters that they fought in their careers.

Like I said, If you were of that mind.

 

Firstly, Witherspoon is GREAT. He is the most talented and one of the most achieved HW's in the 80's - Big Win
His fight with Weaver is a classic and Weaver is also another one of the greatest HW's of the 80's - Big Win

Trevor Berbick is highly talented and would another one of the best HW from the 80's - Good Win

Shavers was inconsistent, so that's agreeable - Decent Win

Norton was past his prime but still a threat and Larry is still somewhat green - Good Win

Cooney is an unstoppable force, Larry beat him down when he's undefeated - Big Win

Renalso Snipes is very underrated, exciting fighter - Good Win

James Smith is a force to be reckoned with, He is probably as good if not, BETTER than guys like Golota, Akinwande and Rahman who Lewis beat plus Larry was aging - Huge Win

Ray Mercer Some other fights get big credit for beating Mercer. Larry should get EXTRA credit cuz he's like 70 years old and he SCHOOLED him. Unlike Lewis, who struggled with. - Very Huge Win

David Bey is a solid fighter from the 80's - Decent win

Ossie Ocasio also another solid fighter - Decent Win

Larry has the conversation to be top 3 easy.

 

I find stupid as hell. Like, it's very stupid.

 

I can definitely see ranking him as a top 3 H2H. It is not inconceivable that at his best, he could potentially best any ATG heavyweight champion. As an old man, he made a prime Holyfield look inept and confused at times.

Legacy wise, he did have longevity as a champion and beat some pretty decent fighters. Right now, I am watching the Holmes/ Norton fight. Norton was one of the very decent fighters that Holmes bested.

 

Holmes, while still good, was past his best. Plus, Spinks was an ATG light heavyweight who was a good heavyweight. Won't hold that loss too much against Holmes but it was a good win for Spinks.

 

That's how I see it too. Not to mention that he ARGUABLY avenged his loss. I don't understand why that lost needs to be discredit THAT big.

 

Overrated. So many people say he's underrated and crap but how can a man be underrated when he is talked about by literally everybody ? He had a pretty okay resume and struggled with B Tier fighters.

He was a good fighter though, had a great jab but that jab will not make him invincible. Several fighters like Prime Ali, Lennox Lewis, George Foreman (most likely) will beat him.

 

I have him around no 5 all time, some have him higher some a bit lower,no big drama.Outside the top 10 becomes a big deal,imo

 

I think his opposition stacks up pretty well with Louis'.