An unbiased look at Wilder’s top 10 opponents

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by NEETzschean, Dec 28, 2021.


Page 11 of 13
  1. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

    1,834
    1,468
    Feb 23, 2021
    If Arreola was past his prime at 33 then what was he at 40 and 18 months inactive? If that version is dropping Ruiz, going 12, giving him a competitive fight, hurting him multiple times, then Ruiz would probably lose to prime Arreola, who according to you wasn't even that good. So AJ lost to a fighter who is worse than Arreola was and lost in devastating fashion.
     
    NEETzschean, Dec 30, 2021
    NEETzschean, Dec 30, 2021
    #151
    SmackDaBum likes this.
  2. Kiwi Casual

    Kiwi Casual Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,847
    3,640
    Jul 31, 2021
    If Arreola was past his prime and an absolute shell of his former self, what does that make Ortiz who's even older?
     
    Kiwi Casual, Dec 30, 2021
    Kiwi Casual, Dec 30, 2021
    #152
    kriszhao and BELLERS like this.
  3. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

    1,834
    1,468
    Feb 23, 2021
    Ortiz is/was a much better fighter than Arreola. Chris was dropped and got a gift against against Travis Kauffman at 34.5, who Ortiz fought 9 months post-Wilder 1 at 40+, battered for 9 rounds and stopped.

    Ortiz turned pro very late at an official 31, made his big step up at 36.5 and was heavily avoided. AJ could have fought him in 2016 but they swerved the fight as Ortiz probably would have KO'd him. 28-0 Ortiz was past his best at 39 when Wilder fought him but he was still very dangerous.
     
    NEETzschean, Dec 30, 2021
    NEETzschean, Dec 30, 2021
    #153
  4. kriszhao

    kriszhao Boxing Junkie Full Member

    7,866
    2,112
    Feb 8, 2008
    who has Ortiz beat to make him more proven then Arreola?
     
    kriszhao, Dec 30, 2021
    kriszhao, Dec 30, 2021
    #154
    Wizbit1013 likes this.
  5. exocet76

    exocet76 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,320
    17,493
    Feb 28, 2012
    He hasn't fought anyone other than Jennings who was a leftover from the previous generation...

    Like Wilder his resume is as weak as they come. Neet has been slapped down so many times in this thread I suspect he might be autistic.

    He's literally banging his head against a wall and expecting a different result.

    His reasoning skills and BIAS undermine everything he states.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2021
    exocet76, Dec 30, 2021
    exocet76, Dec 30, 2021
    #155
    Quina74, ExtraSamsaric, kriszhao and 1 other person like this.
  6. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Doesn't buy hypejobs Full Member

    3,574
    6,208
    May 6, 2021
    Almost as if it were a trolling job, isn't it?

    (Hence why I'm done with this **** thread)
     
    BubblesUK, Dec 30, 2021
    BubblesUK, Dec 30, 2021
    #156
    ExtraSamsaric, exocet76 and lobk like this.
  7. exocet76

    exocet76 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,320
    17,493
    Feb 28, 2012
    It's clearly trolling as they have been beaten down by multiple people including ourselves.
    No amount of mental gymnastics can change the reality that there resumes are garbage by any measuring stick.
     
    exocet76, Dec 30, 2021
    exocet76, Dec 30, 2021
    #157
    ExtraSamsaric, kriszhao and BubblesUK like this.
  8. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    25,830
    33,798
    Jul 4, 2014
    And if you like, then you can remove yourself from those discussions. The rest of us are going to continue to look at the start of the modern heavyweight championship as John L. Sullivan, who, by the way, usually weighed about 210, if I remember correctly.
     
    catchwtboxing, Dec 30, 2021
    catchwtboxing, Dec 30, 2021
    #158
  9. Kiwi Casual

    Kiwi Casual Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,847
    3,640
    Jul 31, 2021
    I think you're missing my point. You're happy to degrade fighters value based on their age, but that magically disappears when you sing Ortiz praise. I'd appreciate a bit more consistency, especially as you're trying to come across as non-bias.

    Hell, I'd pick the aged Wlad and Pov to batter Ortiz any day of the week, and twice on a Sunday.
     
    Kiwi Casual, Dec 30, 2021
    Kiwi Casual, Dec 30, 2021
    #159
    exocet76, Quina74, CleneloAnavarez and 2 others like this.
  10. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

    1,834
    1,468
    Feb 23, 2021
    Fun fact: Tommy Burns and Philadelphia Jack O' Brian fought for the "world heavyweight title" in 1906, weighing 172 and 163.5 lbs respectively. Modern big weight-cutting welterweights enter the ring at a similar weight to "heavyweight" Tommy.

    Those who say things like "Wilder has the worst record of any HW champ in the last 100 years" are either idiots or they are trolling because they couldn't name more than a small fraction of HW champs from the last 100 years. And if we look back at the last 15 or so years, we see a multitude of champions with worse records than Wilder, who has one of the strongest.
     
    NEETzschean, Dec 31, 2021
    NEETzschean, Dec 31, 2021
    #160
    Safin likes this.
  11. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

    1,834
    1,468
    Feb 23, 2021
    Battering Kauffman and stopping him rather than going life and death, getting dropped and getting a controversial decision is a good start. Taking Wilder to war and outboxing him before the KO's was also a lot more impressive than losing every round and getting stopped by Wilder with a broken right hand.

    Ortiz's best opponents beaten are 6th ranked Jennings, Hammer and Scott, Arreola's are a washed up McCline, Seth Mitchell and Molina. Ortiz has two losses (both to Wilder in highly competitive fights) Arreola has seven (Vitali, Adamek, Stiverne x2, Wilder, Kownacki, Ruiz) and could easily have a couple more (Kassi, Kauffman).
     
    NEETzschean, Dec 31, 2021
    NEETzschean, Dec 31, 2021
    #161
    Safin likes this.
  12. Kiwi Casual

    Kiwi Casual Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,847
    3,640
    Jul 31, 2021
    ...so what you're saying is that they both beat the same "best" opponent, and lost to their best opponent in Wilder. That looks like they're on about the same level to me except that Chris fought stronger competition and lost a few more fights.
     
    Kiwi Casual, Dec 31, 2021
    Kiwi Casual, Dec 31, 2021
    #162
    MarkusFlorez99 and kriszhao like this.
  13. Wizbit1013

    Wizbit1013 Drama go, and don't come back Full Member

    13,020
    16,526
    Mar 17, 2018
    This thread is hilariously bad lol
     
    Wizbit1013, Dec 31, 2021
    Wizbit1013, Dec 31, 2021
    #163
    MarkusFlorez99 and BubblesUK like this.
  14. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    25,830
    33,798
    Jul 4, 2014
    Yes, but they were the two best combinations if heavy and good on the planet which is why they fight for the heavyweight title.

    And if you didn't know, Roy Jones and Chris Byrd came up from that weight relatively recently to win world titles. The best heavy in the world right now started out at 200.

    It is what it is. You can believe as you like, but don't expect that you are going to sway anyone.
     
    catchwtboxing, Dec 31, 2021
    catchwtboxing, Dec 31, 2021
    #164
    Wizbit1013 likes this.
  15. red corner

    red corner Active Member banned Full Member

    1,484
    952
    Oct 9, 2021
    To make matters worse the fight was even at the point of stoppage. This resume sucks and Wilder was in his prime for all of the fights.
     
    red corner, Dec 31, 2021
    red corner, Dec 31, 2021
    #165
    Rollin likes this.
Page 11 of 13