Ingo vs Cleveland Williams

I'm sorry, who went to the ring with Ingo to know that? You or Machen?

 

I am similarly disposed to my man Ingo (by way of some ice cool Swedish DNA). I will defend him beyond all rationale. Respect to you for your allegiance!!

 

You're changing the subject at hand. You said the following: Cleveland Williams is famous for losing to everyone and the people who beat him saying he hit hard.


I bring up evidence that it's not true, and now you're saying it doesn't matter because Terrell never fought Johannson....

Though this thread is about his chances against Williams, Ingo is irrelevant to this particular discussion. You said Williams lost to everyone, and the only people who praise his power are the ones who beat him, which as I've demonstrated is a lie.

It's also very interesting that you claim you don't care what Terrell said even though those quotes I produced, I got from you...

Like I said previously, you're a hypocrite, liar, and a revisionist.

 

Meh, I wouldn't. Williams was faster, a better boxer, more versatile and hit harder imo (though this is debatable). He also did much better against his boxer (Machen) than Lyle did against his (Young). It should also be noted, in at least one of the fights Young swept Lyle in, he was unrated (I think he was unrated both times but don't quote me on that). When Williams drew with Machen, Machen was the highest ranked heavy in the word not named Sonny Liston.

If I'm not mistaken, he also beat more top ten contenders and made it higher in the ratings (number 2).

 

Lyle would have almost no chance with Liston whatsoever. Liston is better in every department except arguably heart (even heart I would go with Liston but you can make a case for Lyle). I also think Williams was better equipped to deal with Liston than Lyle.

I also think Williams would outlast Shavers in a barnburner using his superior speed, ring IQ, and endurance.

The only performance of Lyle's I don't think Williams could match is against Foreman, but even there Foreman was a shell of himself, fighting the wrong style, and had his confidence shattered. Even so, Lyle benefitted from a premature round end in 2 when Foreman had him hurt. '73 Foreman destroys him without to much trouble.

 

Liar? I'm not changing the subject. I'm talking about Cleveland Williams vs. Ingemar Johansson.

Now you're saying Ingemar Johansson has nothing to do with the discussion, and you want to talk about Ernie Terrell saying Cleveland Williams hit hard, when Ernie Terrell BEAT Cleveland Williams ... like I said.

I explained why I thought Ingemar Johansson would beat Cleveland Williams.

No need to keep repeating it.

Terrell is the one who has nothing to do with this conversation. It's not a Terrell vs. Ingo thread.

(Ingo beats Terrell, too.)

 

I'm the guy who saw Ingemar Johansson decapitate Eddie Machen in two minutes flat.

Eddie is the guy who got decapitated and clearly had no memory of nearly getting killed, if he said that. Clearly he remembered fights where he didn't go down and went the distance -- like his fight with Williams.

By the way, I'd like to see this quote from Machen that Cleveland Williams was the hardest hitter he faced.

 

Thers's no way in hell where Ingo beats Terrell

 

He got knocked out by Williams.

 

Do I need the list the guy with 13 ko losses who knocked out Williams, the guys with 7, 8, 10, 11, 12 KO losses who went the distance with Williams, their common opponents and how Williams didn't KO them but Ingemar brutally KOed them?

Do I have to remind you that Ingo was the WORLD champion and floored Patterson seven times in their first fight and two times in their third fight (NINE TIMES) and Cleveland never won crap? That Ingo destroyed the #1 contender in two minutes and Williams went the distance with him?

Do I have to remind you again that Williams had zero head movement and stood straight up, and Ingo would've brutalized him with overhand rights?

Eddie wanted a rematch but Ingo wouldn't give it to him? That's because Johansson spent the next three years engaging in heavyweight title fights, which Machen would've been fighting in if he hadn't been wasted in two minutes.

Too bad Machen didn't have Eddie Hearn and the automatic rematch clause in his contract. Sometimes, you don't get a return when you don't see the end of round one.

Williams wouldn't last much longer.

Ingo kills Williams ... Witherspoon-Eklund-style.

 

He also beat Williams.

 

Yeah, because Ernie was so great.

Two losses to Johnny Gray. Loss to Wayne Bethea. 15 rounds to beat Eddie Machen (fresh out of the psych ward and coming off a loss to Floyd) for a vacant belt. 10 round decision loss to Manuel Ramos.

Total beast.

But this thread isn't about Terrell ... it's about Ingemar Johansson beating down Cleveland Williams.

 

Although Cleveland Big Cat Williams had power in his dukes, he was constantly open to a right hand, remember his first fight against Sonny Liston in April 1959, he broke and bloodied the nose of The Big Ugly Bear before being stopped early. Ingemar Johansson has that right hand that could put a power house like The Big Cat to sleep as he did to Eddie Machen on Sept 14 1958. Ingo by KO 4.