Most realistic path for Mike Tyson to have finished his career as HW GOAT?

Nah, the critics would have a field day with Ruddock and Holyfield missing from his resume. I think it would be very difficult to have a convincing case for #1 if you retire before you're even 23 just as the division is starting to heat up.

 

Without prison

 

I disagree, the late 80`s was a weak time in the heavyweight division compared to other divisions at that time.

 

No, he looked bad v Ruddock.

 

Ruddock made his name fighting Tyson it would depend on what he did to see if people cared about Tyson not fighting him, Holy proved himself inthe Bowe rematch, Ruddock never had a name like that on his resume.

 

No it wasn't. Holyfield, Dokes, Witherspoon, Ruddock, Bowe and Foreman had entered the scene towards the end.

Ruddock was the #2 contender before he had any of the Tyson fights. People did want to see them fight because it was an exciting match up between two huge punchers and some people avoided Ruddock. There'd be a lot of question marks about Tyson's legacy if he retired after slinks since the vast majority of his opponents got steam rolled. People would wonder if guys like Ruddock, Holyfield, or Bowe could have beaten him.

 

I think Bowe was as good as Foreman and better than Norton I also feel Holy was better than Norton, Frazier was better than Holy and Bowe but I don`t think he could have taken Tyson`s power.

 

Dokes was finished, Tyson would have finished him in a round, Holy hadn`t put his weight on yet and struggled with Stewart, he kept brawling too much, Witherspoon was past his best, Foreman was overrated in the late 80`s and slow as hell.

 

Trouble is, if he beat both of them, and didn't lose to Douglas either, their rankings would plummet.

It would certainly elevate him, but I don't think into GOAT contention.

 

They’re still the same fighters regardless looking at it from where we sit it shouldn’t leave doubt but in an alternate time line…’then I’m not sure.

 

That's why you still need to remove him for a few years via prison. That's how Ali got his ranking: letting the garden grow for a few years before pruning it again.

 

In some ways the loss to Frazier probably helped Ali's ranking by elavating Frazier.

If Ali never lost to Frazier, Smokin' Joe would probably just be seen as the best of the rest while the true champion wasn't able to fight, and generally excluded from the lineage. That'd also undermine his loss to Foreman.

It's weird how boxing all time rankings work when you really think about them.

 

You can attempt to discredit the 80's all you want. It doesn't change the fact if Tyson retired after spinks people would question his legacy and would wonder how good he was with his lack of serious opposition. You seem to be missing the point of the thread.

 

Yes, he looked bad vs Ruddock, but good enough.
Alex Stewart, and Henry Tillman are also indicators post Tokyo Mike Tyson.
Now, James "Buster" Douglas...
Never in better shape Douglas Vs never in worse shape Tyson (lifestyle).
I doubt it would pre prison Mike Tyson lost from Evander Holyfield, unless he was in Tokyo shape.

 

Realistically - he would have to squeeze the Holyfield fight in before prison - win - a clear win. Then he goes to prison. While in prison for 3 years Holyfield goes on to still do brilliant things at heavy in his prime including beating Bowe.
This would enhance Mike greatly while in prison.
Now he gets out of prison and instead of wasting everyone’s time with the farcical bouts he took. He would replace Peter Mcneely, with say Tommy Morrison in his first fight back. He takes out Tommy. (Tommy likely was going to be a Tyson opponent had he not tested positive before the Arthur Stormy Weathers fight) This fight would have to be exciting with Tyson ending things early after a fun fire fight. The fans would be going nuts.
Next he gets a crack at Michael Moorer off the Schulz win for the Ibf belt. Let’s say Tyson ko’s him quick in 3 rounds and wins the belt back in his second bout. A far better win than Buster Mathis Jr.
Tyson then defeats Bruno as he did for the wbc belt in England.
Now instead of Bruce the Fix Seldon he takes on a very old Foreman and stops him late. Foreman would of been lineal still in this bout off the controversial Schulz match.
This leaves Mike with 2 of the 3 major belts and Lineal Champion.

This takes him up to the point of time he has the first Holyfield match in real life. Not much has changed in timeline except - Tyson now holds a win already over a prime HW great in Holyfield in 1991. He has ended the career of a future Hall of fame HW in Foreman and is now lineal. And instead of the laughable fights he made at heavy over Mcneely and Mathis, he has a classic win over a popular and dangerous Tommy Morrison and a competent and good Moorer. His immediate comeback bouts look much more like Ali’s than the circus it was.
Now he fights Holyfield and loses - but this time by decision because he is sharper and has a better gas tank because he has been fighting real competition.
This leaves him at 45-2. Age 30. Not the fighter he was pre prison and in decline but with a far greater post prison career than he had.
Now instead of rushing immediately into a 3rd match with Holyfield the promoters let it marinate and both guys get two matches before the bout.
Tyson fights a come-backing Buster Douglas in a bout billed as unfinished business, Tyson makes quick work of this version of Douglas ending it early. Next he gets a fight with Golota as he did in real life only slightly earlier in timeline and he forces Golota to quit as he did.
Holyfield meanwhile fights Vaughn Bean and Herbie Hide. Winning both.
This sets the stage for Holyfield vs Tyson 3.
No matter what happens in this bout I think people “could” make the case that Tyson was best ever. Assuming he retires immediately after the bout. This leaves him at either 47-3 or 48-2. Now the question would be could Tyson have defeated the super heavyweight. Lewis’s reign as a size bully was on the horizon in the very late 90s, with Vitali and then Wlad to follow.
Tyson would have on his resume 4 hall of fame fighters - past prime Holmes and Foreman, Spinks and Peak Holyfield. He would of missed 3 years in prison where people speculate how he would of beaten Bowe. He gets out of the game before he is a shell of a fighter losing to Lewis, McBride etc.
I think this path locks him in as top 3 with his vocal supporters which there are many claiming him to be 1.