Sven Ottke Most Protected Fighter?

No Bailey.... the sheer # of defenses both Joe and Sven were making AT THE SAME TIME, is not comparable to what you tried to provide examples of. You know I am right w/ that comparison.

 

Getting back to the point of the topic, was Sven Ottke over protected. The answer to the question is yes. But let’s be fair there hasn’t been many fighters in the last 30 years who have simply went looking for the very best in their division mainly cause it doesn’t make business sense for a lot of the promoters.

If you look at the list of Ottkes there were some decent names in their Reid, Johnson, Brewer, Mitchell and Mundine, but no signature victories, some controversial ones, not no signature ones. The issues were a lot of the time, the manner of victories, controversial sometimes, close usually, but primarily boring fights, to the naked eye it looked like anyone at elite level would have destroyed him. The myth that you had to knock him out to win in
Germany, wasn’t always far fetched he enjoyed some favourable decisions that could have went either way and at least one maybe 2 blatant losses but over time the stories you hear is that he lost every single fight in Germany without the judges help, which isn’t true. I’ve seen shocking decisions all over the world including the US and in England.

What I think is slightly overlooked as he squeezed a lot of world titles fights in to 6 year period, considering how long it takes most fighters to get 20 plus I title defences in.

I think Ottke was happy to be a world champion, and settled for smaller fights when he could have been chasing big fights, could his promoter chased down bigger fights 100% but I think he was comfortable in these kind of fights. He came around at that in between time in super middleweight division where there wasn’t that much world class talent around other than Joe, and he wasn’t going to travel to the UK and Calzaghe wasn’t going to travel to Germany so it was a bit of stalemate on who’s fault it’s was for not happening.

He was a decent fighter in an average generation for his division.

 

It’s okay mate.

You know how much I respect you as a poster. I think that you’re the only poster on here who rips me, where I never give anything back. I just take the insults and laugh along with them. I never lose my temper and confront you. I just play along.

As for being repetitive, I get that. I think a lot of us are guilty of it. We all have our favourite fighters, and I’m sure that me and Bailey have typed things in this thread which we both must have typed a thousand times over the last decade. If I’m bored and I look at a thread like this and somebody puts something that I don’t agree with, I feel compelled to type something. I’m a creature of habit. I’m sure that I’ll be doing the same thing in another 10 years. I do genuinely try to find new topics, but I can’t help getting sucked back into the old ones.

Regarding Bailey, again, I couldn’t see anybody on here driving him off of the forum. And I hope whoever argues/debates with him doesn’t do it with any malice.

I don’t think that we’ve ever agreed on anything in 10 years, but he’s absolutely one of my favourite posters along with yourself.

May the pawnage and self pawnage continue.

 

We’ll be doing this dance forever. Ha!

You too my friend.

I hope all is well and that you have a great year.

 

It’s so addictive isn’t it.

I’ve never known anything like it. I literally come on here every day, only if I read threads.

Regarding Bailey, I’ve truly never seen people ganging up on him in the way that you have. Not with malice. I’ve never felt the way you have. Because the way I read his posts, it comes across to me as though he absolutely thrives off of it. And I’m being serious. I’ve never thought that people have tried to drive him out etc.

I’ve told him a thousand times that I’ve schooled him, and he just laughs and says that he’s pawned me etc.

I’ve never seen anybody get the better of him.

 

Good post.

I don’t know what you can do when you have a situation like this.

Everybody knows I’ve been a huge critic of Joe’s throughout the years. But I never criticised him for not going to Germany to fight Ottke. And if you were in Ottke’s shoes, you’d never have come to Britain to fight Joe. But what’s the answer for this sort of problem?

There’s just too many orgs, promoters and networks etc involved.

The only thing that I can think of, is staging it somewhere neutral. But even then, it probably wouldn’t be possible.

Joe and Sven should have fought each other, like Roy and Dariusz should have fought each other.

 

Calzaghe had 12 smw defences when ottke was a rival champion
Jones had 12 lhw defences when michalczewski was a rival champion, plus Jones had the Griffin rematch and the hill fight which many view as a defence

That's 12 fights calzaghe had during that time
That's 14 fights Jones had during that time

Ottke made 21 defences during that time
Michalczewki made 17 defences in that time

Looks pretty comparable to me

 

Guess you got me there. At least on this one.

So...what does this even mean to you Bailey? That because of this...any two guys can BOTH have long reigns in the same division and it's OK if they don't fight?

No one was happy RJJ and DM never got it on.

 

I think the close fight thing is interesting how stories get charged as time goes on

When it comes to close fights in world title fights I always wondered if badau jack will be viewed in his world title fights ie

Close debatable fights with groves, degale, Bute, Stevenson, Pascal etc
Nearly all his world title fights were close debatable fights

 

Means to me those respective fights didn't happen
I wanted to see those 2 fights and think its a shame we never saw them

Back in the 90s early 00s (I don't know how old you are) boxing seemed very insular to countries at the time...

I was starting to type a long post above with my opinion but decided not to bore you with it

I think if it was nowadays that it would likely have happened

 

Mundine getting KTFO by Ottke was embarrassing, BUT

Ottke supposedly had good boxing skills but by all accounts Mundine was winning that fight after 9 rounds. Mundine had been boxing for 18 months. Not pro 18 months, BOXING 18 months - he gave up rugby league the year before and had no amateur experience. Isn’t that embarrassing for Ottke? It’s really pretty incredible when you think about it

 

So I'm defensive for merely refuting your post?

Interesting.

Judging by the other posts in the thread it appears you and Aussie Invader have what I call the "Herol Gee" problem or HGP.
It's very similar to Trump Derangement Syndrome or TDS for short. It would appear that you both are far more invested in crapping on a dude who retired well over a devade ago.

So what about Roy not fighting Michalczewski as he was long reigning at Light Heavy?

Joe was competitive at Super Middle why fight most of his career at a weight where he's conceeding many attributes?

Using your reasoning then Hopkins is a complete fraud as he started at Light Heavy boiled down to Middle for a good chunk of his career and finished at Light Heavy. Shouldn't if your being consistent in your thought be making threads about Hopkins as his appears to be a far worse case?

It is a fallacy at this point it's what's known as a "sunk cost" fallacy as you and Aussie are too far invested at this point to reasonably concede.

Then there's the circular arguement fallacy when presented with counter points you revert back to repeating what you said before without any new evidnce to support it.

They're a couple more but I think you get my point. I clearly said in my last post that if you go down the emotionallyy invested road of critique then you will always find flaws.

It doesn't however mean that they are valid as you are clearly not applying context. I gave you examples of your logic in this and previous posts and you won't be able to begin to refute them.

Why?

It demonstrates your lack of objectivity on this particular subject as you've clearly spent years trying to persuade rational people that they're wrong and you are right.

At the end of the day Joe is an undefeated ATG great at Super Middle and you and Aussie are just going to have to suck on a big fat one.

None of your fallacy arguements are going to work because there based on flawed and emotional thinking.

 

People forget Ottke started late as a pro.
So he had to be rushed into a title fight.
He had a very sneaky style and he was pretty good at gauging distance and very soild on defense.
Was he one of the greats at super middle? No but he was highly effective.

 

Mundines father was a fighter so to suggest he never put on a pair of gloves or sparred until 18 months before the Otkke fight is ludicrous.