Is Vasyl Lomachenko p4p the GOAT?

Um, hotels and flights were booked as soon as the fight was announced. This was a once-in-a-lifetime machine that was in motion and to stop it would have been pandemonium.

 

Too bad that can all be changed easily especially when they announce the new date and all they have to do is change the days of your flight and rooms booked. I had a trip to lake Tahoe booked for August and had to cancel push it back and rebook to early October very easy to do.

 

What criteria are you using?

If you’re talking about ranking him on a H2H basis, in terms of ability, then you could certainly say that in your opinion, he’s one of the most skilled/greatest fighters of all time.

However, if using traditional ranking criteria, you’re not just rating solely on ability. You’re looking at who a guy fought, and at what point. You’re looking at their quality of opposition. Their longevity. Their overall accomplishments. That’s traditional criteria.

If you want to rate Loma higher than Floyd on a H2H basis, because you think that he’s more skilled than Floyd, then okay. But under traditional criteria, you can’t possibly rate him that high.

As amazing as Loma is, the guy literally has only had 18 pro fights, with (fairly or unfairly) a record of 16-2.

Floyd was 50-0 in a pro career which spanned almost 20 years.

So Loma can’t possibly rank above Floyd at this point.

Nobody with only 18 fights can possibly be ranked as the GOAT.

It’s absurd.

You will find that most knowledgeable fans, historians and sports writers will always rank based upon traditional ranking criteria.

 

As explained in my previous post, his number of fights has everything to do with it.

The guy literally only has an 18 fight resume.

Who’s pretending?

You can’t proclaim someone to be the GOAT with a 16-2 pro record.

He’s nowhere near any of the Fab Four with a resume like that.

Leonard was immensely skilled, and he has wins over: Benitez, Hearns, Hagler and Duran.

Loma can’t come close at this point.

 

Wins over Walters, Rigo and Russell alone, put his resume over Floyd?

WTF are you talking about?

Are you actually being serious?

Those 3 wins rank above a 50-0, 20 year career?

Have a word with yourself man.

If you think that fighters in La Motta’s era were all crude, then you’re a very ignorant fan who needs educating.

 

Come on Pimp.

I too believe that Floyd would always have beaten Manny. Always. But we know that Manny was denied a shot just before the fight, and we know that he had shoulder surgery about 5 days after the fight. The world renowned surgeon who performed the procedure has been quoted numerous times. You can’t seriously be suggesting that the surgery was a hoax and didn’t happen.

 

I never said the surgery didn't happen I'm saying Pac checked healthy on the form and if he didn't think he was right pull out like Spence and postpone the fight. If not it's an excuse. That's what I'm saying.

 

Loma’s a phenom.

We’re running out of superlatives.

I just wish he’d have turned pro earlier though.

I don’t want to criticise such a great boxer, and we’re lucky to have him here to entertain us. But it’s so frustrating for me that he went onto to his 2nd Olympic Games. I know that it was such an honour for him, but I just can’t help feeling robbed by it.

 

You know what happened with the form. We found out what happened afterwards. There was a mistake made, and he was denied a shot. That’s not an opinion, it’s a fact.

Now I believe that if Manny had been 100% fit, where he’d have fought to his full capabilities, that it wouldn’t have been enough to have beaten Floyd. Nobody will ever convince me otherwise. But Manny was injured and he had shoulder surgery the following week.

 

I've seen basketball and football players have career games in the last game of the season and have surgery a couple days later. It means nothing and it wasn't that severe, he could perform with that. FFS he threw punches with both arms and never showed any distress to his shoulder during the fight. Hell Tom Brady played all last football season with a torn MCL and won a Superbowl. Guys can play or fight with injuries and still perform at high levels it happens.

 

Not all injuries are the same. They affect people differently, depending on the severity and the specific place that it’s in. They will also affect people differently, depending on what they’re doing. You can’t compare a quarterback to a fighter who throws punches.

You cannot say that Manny wasn’t injured.

Look at the official report.

Now I’m not going to discuss the IV incident, because me and you have discussed it many many times. But you always stand by the report that Floyd was declared innocent and that he didn’t do anything wrong. Yet that same report states that Manny was denied a pain killing shot due to an error with the paperwork. So you can’t pick and chose which part of the report that you support.

If you want to remind everyone that the report found Floyd to be innocent of any wrongdoing, then you have to respect the fact that Manny filed a request for an injection. And this information only came to light AFTER the fight. So if a guy requested a pain killing injection before the fight, before then having surgery the following week, then he had to have been legitimately injured to some degree.

You simply cannot deny Manny’s injury and claim that it was fabricated.

At the end of the day, the report that you support claims that he was injured.

 

I said he could still perform the injury was not severe enough to call the fight off. Answer me this, when during the fight did we see any signs of a shoulder injury that reduced his performance? I sure as hell didn't see it. Lastly it's Pac's fault for not checking the right box if he had checked the right one he would've been allowed the shot.

 

Respect your opinion, but I disagree. 2 of the judges had it 8-4. And that was an injured Manny who had been knocked out by Marquez.

Pac from 2008-2012 with no injury and no brutal KO loss would have been too ferocious. It's why Floyd stalled the fight for 5 years. Fight also wouldn't have happened at all if Pac was never knocked out.

 

Who pulled out of the fight in 2009 and who agreed to fight in 2009?

 

MLB pitchers pitch through injury all the time and the elite ones throw fireballs at 95 mph and up. It's usually only after a string of poor starts where they discover they need Tommy John surgery. And they're on the mound pitching to batters, not standing opposite a guy trying to kill them in an 18 by 18 ring. Adrenaline and competitive spirit carries them through. Curt Schilling pitched heroic masterclass with his tendon stapled to together and bled through his sock. And all of stress that goes with a pitcher landing all of his weight on his leg.

A fastball puts far more stress on the arm than any punch a boxer can throw and pitchers throw 100+ pitches. But again, like I said, competitive spirit and their life is not on the line.

But you're gonna say that chest shot in the first round put the fear in Pac? ROFLMAO!!!

42 year old Pac took massive bombs from a much bigger Thurman to no ill effect, wasn't scared nor did he run, but he was scared of Floyd's power?