Were Rahman, Peter, and Stiverne superheavyweights?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Jan 16, 2022.


  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    12,906
    6,253
    Jun 30, 2005
    Yeah.

    My own guess is that it's not the fat, per se. It's the fact that your body has a small, healthy surplus of what it needs.

    I don't know what mechanism would allow a pure coating of blubber to protect your head from concussions. Even football helmets don't do that very well, and Toney's fat wasn't exactly bolted into his chin like a cushion.
     
    Journeyman92 likes this.
  2. Moggy94

    Moggy94 Active Member Full Member

    1,165
    1,227
    Mar 25, 2021
    The only evidence for it realistically is the eye test, for example old Foreman never held on for dear life from one shot like he did again Ron Lyle where he weighed 222 or 225 I believe. Now when I say the mass helps of course these guys like Foreman, Toney and Ruiz would still have good chins if not as fat as they are/were. Roy Nelson is an MMA fighter who weighed anywhere from 247-260 with a huge gut and could withstand some terrible punishment, he did get knocked out two or three times as eventually it will catch but I'm sure that mass helped, even if he weighed 220 he would of been pretty durable but I doubt he would of taken all the punches, kicks and knees he did as easy as when heavier.
     
    cross_trainer and Journeyman92 like this.
  3. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

    19,739
    21,763
    Sep 22, 2021
    This content is protected

    Well...
    This content is protected
     
    NoNeck likes this.
  4. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    12,906
    6,253
    Jun 30, 2005
    Thanks.

    The abstract says neck strength (and presumably the size of the musculature) is what's being looked at here. I totally agree that a more muscular, stronger neck protects against concussions.

    Where I'm more dubious is the idea that fat does much.

    Or did I miss something in the article that discussed fat, qua fat, contributing to concussion resistance?
     
  5. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    12,906
    6,253
    Jun 30, 2005
    Let me put a ridiculous hypothetical to you. Not to be argumentative, but just to see whether I'm misunderstanding:

    If I pumped 30 pounds of pure fat (normally distributed) into, say, Mike Tyson, would you expect that added fat to give him better resistance to head punches?

    No extra muscle. Just 30 pounds of fat.
     
  6. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    12,906
    6,253
    Jun 30, 2005
    :risas3:

    You win the thread. This is awesome.

    He looks like a deformed orangutan. Get Don King down there to get him signed with DPK against Wilder, stat.
     
    Journeyman92 likes this.
  7. Bigcheese

    Bigcheese Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,018
    2,659
    Jun 7, 2015
    Rahman and Sanders in shape are around 230, I wouldn't consider them super heavyweights.
     
  8. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,747
    21,593
    Nov 24, 2005
    I think they were mediocre heavyweights.
     
  9. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,747
    21,593
    Nov 24, 2005
    "Super Heavyweight" is any fighter weighing over 91kg.
    Its amateur boxing weight division.
    At professional nowadays it's just called "heavyweight".
     
  10. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    29,763
    20,222
    Apr 3, 2012
    “Smaller mean neck circumference, smaller mean neck to head circumference ratio, and weaker mean overall neck strength were significantly associated with concussion.”

    A person’s weight gain will correlate directly with increased neck circumference, greater neck:head ratio and I assume strength.

    Nobody is gaining fat and nothing else.
     
    Moggy94 likes this.
  11. Moggy94

    Moggy94 Active Member Full Member

    1,165
    1,227
    Mar 25, 2021
    Tyson was lean and ripped at 220 with a thick neck and already a very good chin which somehow gets underrated, he had to take massive punishment to be dropped/stopped, it possibly could but we will never know. We just have to go on the eye test of guys who got fatter and were able to absorb punches better like Foreman and Toney.
     
    cross_trainer likes this.
  12. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    12,906
    6,253
    Jun 30, 2005
    I'm aware that people don't gain fat in isolation most of the time. (Although I'm guessing some sedentary people could get pretty close.) But that's not the same as saying that the extra fat is what's protecting you. Since we're talking about fighters like Toney or Ruiz who seem to have gained a LOT of surplus fat relative to any muscular gains, it seems relevant to know if (1) the fat itself is doing any work, or if (2) the fat is just a useless byproduct of the bulking-up process that would ideally have gotten shaved off again.
     
  13. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

    8,581
    11,093
    Oct 28, 2017
    Mickey Walker, Charlie Mitchell and Dick Burge were super heavyweights.
     
    cross_trainer likes this.
  14. Moggy94

    Moggy94 Active Member Full Member

    1,165
    1,227
    Mar 25, 2021
    Here's another interesting one when talking about super heavyweights, current number 2 kickboxer in Glory Antonio Plazibat used to fight at 90kg but has move up to heavyweight in the last three to four years and recently fought as heavy as 122kg! He's listed as 6'4 but I'm not quite sure if he is exactly that. Here's he would have at least 30 pounds on prime Rahman and be heavier than The Klitschko Brothers, Lennox Lewis, Joshua, Foreman, Peter etc while still being relatively lean, he's more closer to Fury's weight while carrying it much better:

    This content is protected


    This content is protected
     
    NoNeck likes this.
  15. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    29,763
    20,222
    Apr 3, 2012
    I disagree about Toney and Ruiz. You can visibly see how much muscle and fat Toney put on. I've never seen Ruiz thin to begin with. A better example is Jarrel Miller. He was kind of skinny fat as a kickboxer, but turned into a brickhouse as a boxer and gained 80 pounds or something absurd (yes he was juiced).

    Fat is padding. Obviously, abdominal fat has little to with resistance to the effects of getting punched in the face, but the stuff in the shoulders and neck probably helps.
     
    cross_trainer likes this.