Legend vs legend - Muhammad Ali vs Mike Tyson - When legends collide

Let's compare the two gentlemen at roughly the same age, an age when an athlete is at his or her physical peak. What if the Ali who faced Cleveland Williams faced the Tyson who fought James " Buster" Douglas?

 

Mark, Holyfield said he learned something in his rematch with Bowe when he beat him. What he learned was that you do not stand there trading and slugging with a harder hitting opponent if you want to win.

Look at the difference in tactics between fight 1 and 2. He had a furious inside fight in the 1st match, and boxed more in the 2nd match.

Hoylfield's power clearly didn't suddenly improve by gaining 4 lbs conveniently for the Tyson fight, then glossing over the fact he had very few stoppages after Tyson by using the excuse Holyfield got old. You can't have it both ways. Tyson was stopped by opponents who did not hit particularly hard, so it's nonsense to claim Ali's punches wouldn't phase him.

 

Because he had no choice. His heart was about to explode and his stamina was rapidly draining so he became desperate and tried to end the fight early.

He failed to knockout Bowe so that doesn't help your argument that his power dramatically improve after gaining 4 lbs.

 

Thanks for the bon mots WB!

I agree that the bombs Ali took from those legends were overwhelmingly to the body, not the head.

 

Good man.
Yes he likely just has no idea about some basic facts.

 

Where did I state that ? He was 22 for Spinks and 24 for Buster. Buster was much bigger than the former light heavyweight and wasn't paralyzed by fear.

 

It was clear after a couple of rds that Holy was fading fast. He tried a desperate play and got a KD, but that was it.

Holy wasn't getting much in terms of KO's at that time - that's just the fact. It was Tyson and other than that friggin' Czyz and Moorer - who wanted to continue after being down 5 times. Big punchers turned Moorers lights out. Holy couldn't in two fights. Czyz wasn't hurt either, but quit in the corner.

Had Holy turned into some kind of puncher he'd put these guys out. But he hadn't. The main difference was that he'd lost speed and work rate.

Will you just give it up for chrissakes. You have lost this argument conclusively.

 

That's not what happened. It was a set up shot.

Holyfield: I’ve got to go with the “Real Deal” again. Evander had not only great hand speed but he put something on it. In the third fight he knocked me down. What he did was throw a [relatively light] left hook and I was thinking, “ C ’mon man.” He threw another [weak] left hook and I was like, “ Really?” I didn’t realise that he was setting me up to relax. The third one he hit me with I seen the lights and the count. I’m like, “ Damn, he fooled me again !” I got up and shook it off. I think at that point he shot his load. He really couldn’t take me out like he wanted to. I [went] back to the corner, and I switched up on him and knocked him out.

Holyfield basically got Bowe to relax baiting him with weak shots, then put everything he had into one big hook to try to end the fight. He was already gassing and was completely gassed afterwards because of his heart. That's the reason he changed tactics and went back to slugging instead of boxing like the 2nd fight. Not sure why you're still not getting this, it's pretty self explanatory. His health problems are well documented. The fight was not close either, Bowe landed 100 more punches than Hoylfield and battered him. It was a bad game plan and a desperate attempt to end the fight early.

There is zero evidence Holyfield's power greatly improved by gaining 4 lbs. That never happened in the history of boxing.

 

What are we discussing?
I'm willing to stipulate Tyson was one of the most powerful punchers in boxing history and Muhammad Ali to his credit and long term detriment was better at rolling with punches and then eating them when he got older than every boxer or almost any boxer in history.