Legend vs legend - Muhammad Ali vs Mike Tyson - When legends collide

He was in a movie, Freedom Road, with Kris Kristofferson. He was huge pals with Elvis who stayed at his training camp in Deer Lake. Also pals with Sylvester Stallone who used his Hancock Park mansion for one of the Rockys.

 

It's because Ali knew what they were going to do, where they would be, how they would place their hands on both offense and defense, and could usually guess what they would do. It takes a lot of the pressure off of you when you know these things. You don't even need to knockout such a fighter to win, simply make him look bad and be the more effective fighter landing the cleaner shots.

For all his hand speed, power, and technique, Tyson was fairly straightforward and it wasn't difficult to guess what he would do. Now if you have great reflexes and a good enough chin to survive the occasional bomb you couldn't dodge or block, that almost guarantees you'll at least be in the fight and not run over.

 

I agree. I also think the reasons stated above explain my theory that Mike would have been beaten by Foreman. All comparisons to Frazier aside, Foreman did his homework on Joe...he'd do the same to Mike. Predicting where he'd be, pushing him into position....

 

They only way you

It is one thing to know your opponent's strengths and weaknesses. It's another thing to be able to capitalize on them. That was Ali's strength.

 

To a degree, Foreman's too. He knew how Frazier would typically come in, and he knew Norton couldn't fight off the back foot too well. In fact, he looked real bad in his prime against people he just decided to steamroll and didn't do homework on: Lyle, Young, Ali.

 

Joe Frazier fans rightfully hate Foreman's shoving of Frazier whenever he tried to get in close which literally negated his entire attack but it is the most effective tactic against a great I have ever seen in a boxing match and I have probably watched one thousand.

 

I think he hit more solidly by Tyson 1 than he did prior to Douglas. But there's enough of a distance between "he hit like Ali" and "he hit like Foreman" that he still wasn't what most people would call a "puncher."

IMO, by the time he goes up against Tyson, he's a little below where, say, Calvin Brock was, and a solid notch below somebody like Povetkin. He could hurt and stop normal contenders under the right circumstances if he was really going for it and lands. Stoppages are rare enough among top contenders (Holyfield usually faced the best) that I wouldn't expect a guy like that to have many KOs.

 

As to the thread question, Tyson has a better chance at straight up knocking Ali out than pretty much anybody else before the modern superheavies entered the picture. Tyson also beat up a generation of guys trying to emulate Ali, so there's that, too.

Whether I'd favor Tyson overall to win, though...that's a tougher question.

 

I agree. For example, Holmes may have been able to lift more than Ali, but in the ring Ali was the much stronger man and according to common opponents hit harder as well.

 

Yeah, Holyfield hit hard enough to get your respect. Definitely not feather fisted, but definitely not some revisionist monster hitter anime power ups or not. The stats don't lie.

I don't crucify boxers or question their power if they don't frequently stop prime ranked opponents since this is rare even for elite punchers. But Holyfield seldom stopped even journeyman level heavies even in his prime. Most stoppages he did score, the opponent was on their feet.

So probably close to or slightly above Ali at best. Most would describe Ali's power the same way, that he demanded respect and you couldn't just walk through his punches.

I'd say Ali was a 5.5-6 with his average shots, 6.5 when he plants his feet and let's his hands go (especially the pull counter right hand. He even scored knockdowns with it despite moving backwards).

Holyfield maybe a 6-6.5 with his average shots, 7 when he's really going for it and putting his weight in (Sunday punch is the left hook that earned Bowe and Mercers respect).

I don't think any reasonable person disputed that Tyson has the power, skill, and ability to stop Ali if everything went his way.

I think the psychological factor would determine the winner. If Tyson avoids getting psyched out before the fight, that's the first test. The second is how he handles Ali surviving the first real power punch he lands and Ali pretends to shrug it off. The third test is how Tyson adjusts and if he can compose himself if Ali gets back up from a vicious shot or combination and starts attempting to drag Tyson into deep waters, taunting him and landing vicious flurries to wear Tyson out.

If he passes those 3 tests, he could win and possibly stop Ali if he manages to hurt him a second time. If not...

 

This is a much debated topic...Holmes also knocked out Evangelista one punch, while Ali struggled. I also know for a fact Norton was rocked hard by Holmes several times in their fight, while I'm not sure Ali EVER really hurt Ken in 3 fights.