From 1974 onwards, Would Ali Have Lost To Prime Holmes?

By the time of Ali-Norton lll he would likely have lost against Holmes. Thrilla Ali is an interesting fight. I should add any prime or near prime version of one gives the other problems. I do believe Ali is more adaptable and that makes the difference.

 

74 would be one hell of a fight. I would only slightly favor Ali due to his vast experience, determination, and still having flashes of his old self with good hand speed and head movement.

From Manilla onwards, I would definitely back Holmes to win more often than not. Ali was slowly becoming more and more hittable with less steam on his punches. He was also slacking off in training which meant less stamina and work rate and you need both to decision Holmes. Prime Holmes convincingly beats Ali Manila onwards 9 rounds to 6 with a few close rounds here and there that could go either way.

 

I think Larry had the upper hand by then.

 

74 was Ali's swan song before the decline. That version can put up a fight.

 

It'd be one helluva fight , and I wouldn't be surprised if Ali got a split decision. Ali's right hand could get to Larry

 

Not impressed by Manila Ali. Very stationary, Holmes would beat him.

 

Holmes sparred with Ali during his prep for the Foreman fight and said he beat him easily, prime Holmes v L.Spinks was insane, he was something special.

 

Ali didn`t train much for the Manilla fight and took a beating from Frazier early on in that fight until rallying and trading with Frazier, it was just a brawl, Holmes would have easily out-boxed that version of Ali.

 

I think the Zaire Ali would have lost a tough split to Larry. After that I award Holmes UDs over him.

I think even the 1967 Ali would have only taken a majority decision over Holmes, to be honest, though I think for sure Ali would have beaten him back then it would have been a great fight to watch.

 

Ali never showed much in sparring. Cus D'Amato and Angelo Dundee were watching him spar and Cus remarked he was getting hit a lot. Dundee said the kid likes it. He thinks it gets him ready for a real match. What can I do?. Cus also asked Angie how he can work with Ali when he never listens to him. Back to sparring Mark Kram made the same observation that Ali was letting his opponents beat him up and shaking it off like he was training to be a Black Superman. The Kram observations are in his essay Great Men Die Twice.

 

H2H 60s Ali beats peak Larry. Too quick even for Larry.

In the 70s, maybe many of the versions who showed up until Zaire could have beaten the Holmes that fought Spinks but I don't know. Larry didn't give Ali much to work with in terms of obvious flaws that Ali could exploit so, once he wasn't quicker than Larry, he didn't have a decisive advantage. Was any version of 70s Ali quicker than Holmes?

The benefits 70s Ali gained from the layoff - added strength, power, resilience, guile - are not major factors in a Larry fight. Larry would make it more of a fencing match than a fight. It's Ali's loss in speed that would be apparent as he faces an opponent who can almost match him for the first time since Patterson.

I will go out on a limb and say 50/50 pre-Zaire but I'd pick prime Larry from there on. So I answer 'yes' to the thread's question.

However, in a league table of 70s heavies, I see Ali over Larry. He could beat fighters, using what he had gained post-exile, who Larry would have struggled with. I don't see Larry going 3-1 with Frazier and Foreman. Also, given the shock that Snipes and Spoon gave Larry, one of Ron Lyle, Mac Foster, Al Lewis might have shocked him even more.

 

Ali isn’t such a great “boxer” as painful as that might be to say for some guys. He really did struggle with some fundamental stuff and I just think Holmes was big enough, tough enough and had enough boxing wit to win here.

Muhammad’s bag of tricks was nice and carried him to immortality but it was built on a shaky foundation, he also had the worlds hardest head to bail him out and what I truly believe was a willingness to die in there- he’d have his moments he was a great fighter and extremely wilful- however I think this would be a 9-6 or something for Holmes just my 0.2$.

I think Muhammad might just “find a way” in a rematch I wouldn’t totally dismiss anyone for thinking Larry would lose big of course this is “The greatest”we just don’t really have someone to use as a measuring stick here- Larry would be a totally unique element for 74 Ali however Muhammad was capable of just about anything in the ring when he wanted to win bad enough so I just can’t place anything but bus fare on a bet here.