After beating the very ordinary Stander, Joe talks with his family and team and decide s, too hell with it. His eyes getting worse, pain s in his head, Ali's just messing around and they can't agree on anything. Let that damn Ali get his head smashed by the young guys coming along. So he calls it a day. Where is Smokin Joe Frazier now rated? Unbeaten like Rocky plus a win over the greatest.
He’d certainly get more props in a lot of head to head fantasy fights, given that he retired without anyone seeing what would happen against a destroyer like foreman
He lacked that elite signature win. Retiring before facing Ali would cost him in the ATG ratings. I'd say he'd be lucky to be rated over Patterson or even Walcott with that resume. Fringe top 25 at best.
Can you imagine what people say about a Frazier v Foreman fight then? They certainly won't say George knock s the stuffing out of him!
Stander is completely irrelevant and a filler opponent, but if he beat Ali and then Ali goes on to have the same career he did in the 70's, Frazier's resume ages very well. Especially if he never has the trilogy. He'd probably be a lock in for top 11-15 for most people. Some might even have him top 10 and it wouldn't be unreasonable.
I agree. Without the win over Ali , who was close to his prime, Frazier's wins over Mathis Sr., Ellis, Bonevena are ordinary. The only ATG on his ledger would be Bob Foster. A natural Lt.heavy.
I reckon that most people would rank him even higher. Frazier's record would be 29-0-0 with 25 KOs. He would be the second unbeaten heavyweight champion next to Rocky Marciano. Frazier didn't have as many fights as Marciano but he has the great win over Ali 1971. He would also have some other good wins like against Chuvalo, Quarry, Bonavena, Ellis, Mathis, Foster... Not only was he a 3½ to 1 favorite against the former lesser-known Foreman. People saw him as a wrecking machine. I guess he would be a fringe top 10 fighter at very least. Maybe people would rate Foreman lower though and perhaps more people would rate Ali behind Joe Louis.
Both Ali and Foreman suffer a lot without Frazier. Especially Foreman. Ali would still have a very good resume, but he'd need at least two other decisive wins over some very good heavyweights to make up for the lack of Frazier. The problem is he beat damn near everyone and rematched nearly every decent opponent out there. Foreman would only have Norton, Lyle, Chuvalo, and ledoux. This would make Ali defying the odds to beat him less spectacular without Foreman having dismantled Alis nemesis in Frazier. Maybe we'd get to see Foreman mix it up with guys like shavers, quarry, or Bugner which could all be very exciting matchups. Actually, now that I think about it, if he faced those guys and beat them he'd be considerably more prepared for an Ali match.
I can go with that for sure. Ali goes on to beat Foreman and the rest and Joe the man who whooped him and never lost to him.
Can't see much else difference for Ali. An interesting scenario is, Foreman fights Ali for the vacant title. George wouldn't have that killer rep at the time and wonder how the fight is built up.
Joe is already a top 10 for most people he’d probably climb up 2-4 ranks in that case, still below the likes of Marciano and Foreman. Retiring after FOTC should have been the call for him career wise and health wise.
I was in a shop trying to buy sledgehammers...must've been...'81, '82. I don't know if it had apostrophes or not. But, I don't see that well and I was just feeling the different tools. I know-I mean-like-I know what normal tools feel like. I can tell the outline of a sledgehammer. You know. A screwdriver, sure. Even a nutsplunker. A self-sealing nutsplunker, maybe not specifically. But as I felt my way along the wall where I thought the sledgehammers had just been, I felt this kind of rubbery thing. It was like a cross between a sledgehammer and a ball-peen, but not metal. Well, anyway, I don't want to take up too much of your time, long story short, all of that, it turned out to be Ron Stander's...well, maybe, perhaps, no gentle or polite way of saying this but-well, it's not like you could say he was all that ordinary but it was definitely his big ole-oop, hold on. Got a package from Amazon. If it's my baby chicks, I don't want to leave them in the cold, be right back.