Carlos Monzon Versus Roy Jones Jr.

Tyson and to a lesser extent Dempsey to start with. Tony Ayala definitely is marked down for his abhorrent behaviour. Davey Hilton doesn’t have too many fans these days either due to his out of the ring activities.

I don’t get why holding Monzon actions against him is such an issue for some. Yes he was clearly a great fighter (as I’ve readily admitted) but he was also a piece of scum outside of the ring. A predator who bullied and terrorised weaker people (mainly women).

I understand that to some he’s the embodiment of machismo but real men (let alone highly trained fighters) don’t do to women what he did hence me not liking the man.

if this fight could ever happen I’d be barracking like hell for Roy to beat the crap out of him.

 

Whatever excites you, use a clean towel by the way, Lol.

 

I did and I don't get it.

I haven't seen a single post here downgrading Monzon's abilities as a fighter based on his out of ring life so I don't see why the point is being made. Literally no-one has factored in the person when judging the fighter through the entire thread.

Similarly, literally no-one piled in on Rich. All responses to him were pleasant. There was absolutely no need to even things up; it just seemed like ganging up as so many posters had a differing view.

If posters have made the point that some of the defences were against older fighters, well, they were. It's not an opinion so much as it's a fact. Kudos to Monzon for conceding youth to Valdez, though.

Have people really been using early fights in South America against him? If they have, they're daft because we just don't know enough about them to comment. Best to comment on the title fights which we can see. As far as I can see, that's what people have been using in this thread so I didn't see the relevance of the fights and rules in South America.

Then there were a load of questions to points that weren't ever being raised. No-one has suggested that he should have fought differently. There seems to be universal acceptance that he used his physical advantages and skill set to the maximum and fair play to him. It's just for some, the sum of those parts is less than it is for others. It happens.

Anyway, we are going round in circles and we're not going to suddenly agree so I'll bid you farewell and look forward to seeing you on another thread where, hopefully, we might share some common ground.

 

Actually Monzon did counter to the head and body, but Thanks for the good post my friend, and I really mean my friend. Black Cloud used to tell me that not everyone on this site is going to be your friend, I will only use that term on select people from now on. It is okay to disagree but no one can change your mind unless you let them, I will not bend for anyone regardless of Clicks, which there are a few. I thought Gangs ended with becoming an adult, I guess not. It is like Racism, that still continues especially on this site. Those are my true feelings, no one can make me change my mind even with a ban. No one has the right to tell me how to feel with strict rules, absolutely no one can. I can seek other sites that are not immature.

 

No-one was piling onto Rich tho surf.

He made some comments that simply weren't true and they were picked up and commented on just like with every other poster on this site. Jones actually having excellent longevity was pointed out multiple times at length by multiple posters and he comes back and sticks to the flash in the pan slant. Also the claims Monzon is better than Hagler because Hagler didn't retire with the title. It's baseless and if similar depth was shown toward Jones all hell would break loose and it would be abuse abound which it already has been.

Richard's dished out plenty himself in this thread and the one i linked and invariably vs more imagined vs real. It's because we hold Richard in high esteem that he has copped as little as he has truth be told and there's plenty going out of their way to be polite when at other times they might not be. The piling on invariably comes from the Monzon supporters of which there is evidence all over the forum.

Pat's comment was obviously tongue in cheek and not what set you off i think. We all know the story of the draws it's been done to death.

For a good example of piling on and abusing someone have a look at this thread where Mark Ant, who loves his boxing and looks at it from a very simple perspective gets smashed for no reason right from the get go.

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...rld-title-opponents-how-would-he-fare.678980/

 

Agree wholeheartedly , consummate breakdown of all the posts on this topic, and a fair, balanced, and unbiased synopsis, closed down the whole debate for me, excellent. stay safe guys.

 

fair enough.. and I did say that the fight would be close imo just to be clear.. And I know you are a Mark Ant fan as am I.. most of the time ... and if Rich has his opions about Tyson.. they are his .. BUT the "untruths" about Monzon have been going on for years and I clearly say that in my post because it always comes back to the Untruths and I think you have been involved in some of the discussions.. so if some are late to the party then so be it... like this garbage here ..

some ..."and are citing various factors such as his lack of pace, methodical approach, rigid looking stance and possible lack of high quality opponents in their prime at their natural weight"

when I read this ... YES it sets me off because its completely just garbage and has been discredited many times before ,, he fought plenty of good sized MW's and a 5 year already established MW in Emile Griffith ... thats like saying SRL dosent get credit for beating Duran because he was a bantanweight ...I'm not even going to get in the other comments in the quote above ...and all this BS about his Draws and soft comp when he was the underdog most of the time coming up.. so ya JT , I have done some research .. and if people want to continue to blow smoke out of their ass .. I'm going to call them on it which I have been doing for a very long time with sourcing info to interviews , to documentaries, with plenty of articles and interviews with Brusa and people who were around Monzon are the sportswriters there since the beginning .... and all I hear are crickets and people continuing to stand there with their dicks in their hands peeing all over themselves .... Fair enough if people think he is over ratted . we all have our fighters for that .. But the untruths about Monzon I have been seeing for years from jackasses who have never read a South American article about boxing because they cant read Spanish or to lazy to use Google translate ... so they would rather shout **** from the Balcony .. And Monzon is generally considered by most as a top 5 MW, more in the 1-3 range would be my guess in the history of our great sport ... And he definitely didnt earn that accolade from being too slow, too rigid, lack or pace , blah blah blah .....

 

Cheers Mike. You are one of the fairest posters we have and if you ever tell me I've done wrong i'll sure take notice!

 

You look at a guys record like Carlos Monzon and you are impressed if you are a casual. But if you are a real fan you would look at his record in more depth. Monzon spent years of his career fighting strictly out of Argentina against guys you never heard of in your life. He actually lost to some of these guys. Then when he stepped up most of the guys he faced either were really unskilled or weren't really that hard of punches.

Roy Jones Jr at middleweight would of been way to fast and powerful for Monzon. If would even say Roy Jones Jr would stop Monzon.

 

Jake Lamotta was a grown man who started messing around with a 14 year old girl who he eventually married and started beating. Jake Lamotta admitted to raping another female and to this day he is never attacked like Mike Tyson or Floyd Mayweather are attacked.

 

Firstly cheers for taking my post in the right spirit. I wasn't sure which way things were going to go given recent history in these threads. Good on ya mate.

Regarding getting wound up about Monzon comments all i can say is the best way to deal with it is to put up solid debate. Cut and paste from your old posts or others if need be if you think they are relevant. Link other threads, whatever. Having said that we all have different opinions on certain things and lets be honest - with a lot of fighters it is possible to put up quite strong contrary opinions. I can see how some still doubt Monzon and i can also see how some think he is so damn good. Certainly factual flaws need to be corrected just the same as blatant "untruths" about guys like Jones being called a flash in the pan deserve to be addressed. It cuts both ways. There's a very large core group of posters i take a lot of notice of in the forum and i am always interested in what they put forth. Some of course be written off every time they waste forum space.

I'm not a Mark Ant "fan" but i understand he absolutely loves boxing and posting in here. He isn't one bit nasty, doesn't learn or communicate quite the way you and i do and cops a lot of crap and at times abuse that he simply doesn't deserve if one if perceptive enough to take all things taken into account. Sure he can be irritating and at times for some almost infuriating (lol) but Mark is Mark. So to be honest it irritates me when he is abused when he may not know better with some things. I see some of my favorite posters get a bit frustrated with him when they can't get their point across but they only go so far at him. Some of his threads are actually great and he makes some good points at times too.

I have a solid feeling the whole team Monzon thing is on the verge of exploding proper to be honest and a lot of (abused) posters have had enough. They've sat back so far, retracted posts and mostly turned a blind eye and stayed pretty calm considering. Hopefully things can move forward a whole lot calmer. It's not a personal insult for someone to pick a fighter to beat a fave or have an alternate opinion of course. By all means if factual errors are made call them out....i do it all the time!!! However if someone is doing something like picking Frank Fletcher to beat Hagler or Monzon i'd expect them to cop some serious heat

 

While it's not impossible Jones stops Monzon or vice versa etc your post is still the perfect example of why people get irritated. Stop trolling.

 

I get it as I am a hot head more times than not and definitely belong in the group that needs to remain calmer.. hell I might be the first in line ... I think I turned into a Dr Jekyll , Mr Hyde type from the Lounge as there is a lot more action going on there ,, and for some reason I cant resort back to Mr Hyde here .. oh well .. I know my place and not really liked much here but thats on me .. Anyway tbh, I'm definitely not a Monzon fanboy ,, if I was I would have said he would KO Jones in 3 .. also Ive stated many many times that there isnt a ray of light that can be seen between the greatness of Hagler and Monzon imo ... they are that close ... but again there is so much info I have posted on Monzon that is hard to find about him unless you look for it in Argentina papers .. Anyway I posted some info in the other thread on big middles and his ring weight with Unforgiven

 

Good stuff mate. It's a different atmosphere in the lounge and general isn't it!

I disagree with your "not really liked much here". One poster already acknowledged you're one of the nicer guys in here and was flummoxed as to what was going on. You've always been very well liked in here and it can be seen on many older threads. Let others do their own bidding.

 

Great now you get blocked for boring me. Go type to somebody who cares.