Why Schmeling is rarely mentioned with guys like Walcott/Charles/Patterson?

I’ll watch a few fights when I have the time. Never gave him a serious close look. Just going by memory of some of his fights

 

I mean honestly his association with Nazi Germany doesn't help. I know it wasn't his fault and he wasn't a Nazi but basically any athlete or artist who was famous during the reich has a cloud on their careers.

Schmeling has unfortunately become sorta just a couple moments in joe Louis' career to most boxing fans, myself included.

But this thread has inspired me to look at some of his other fights!

 

Walcott has wins over
Charles
Bivins
Harold Johnson
Elmer Ray
Lee Murray
Joey Maxim
Curtis Sheppard
It’s a much deeper list for sure. I’ll be sure to watch Schmeling v Sharkey 2. I haven’t seen it. Saw the first one though

 

Some people go crazy with rankings. I don’t. Harold Johnson is better then anyone on Schmelings list not names Louis. I believe Bivins was number one ranked as well at some point and he was on his best streak when Walcott beat him. After Sharkey which was a DQ win his resume isn’t as good as Walcott’s or Patterson or Charles. I suppose the men he beat were better ranked then I thought but really how good of contenders were they historically speaking? Layne may not have been as good as Baer but he was definitely better then others on Schmelings list. Walcott has two careers and is an odd case. There is before Abe and afterwards. Sure before Abe there are a few scattered good wins but not many. After he was a beast. Only comparable guy career wise would be Young.
Once again I find Schmelings case to be a close one. I rank him higher then Norton I just don’t think he was as good as those other guys. I am a Max Baer fan so definetly don’t hold that lose against him. A focused Baer is a very underrated fighter but he was only
Focused for a short time lol

 

I'm not big on rankings (or discussions of rankings), so I may have missed something, but I'm surprised to hear that people generally don't rank him in the same tier as those guys.

 

That's cause Walcott was more skilled than Shavers

 

Most of Walcott’s wins are 40s related…not 50s. Harold Johnson is one of the most underrated fighters ever. And yes I think he’s better then Sharkey. Maxim is also a heck of a win. I don’t think to highly of Curtis but I put him around the Hamas Risko area. Walcott beat what four hall of famers? Maybe five. I get your argument and there’s nothing wrong with it per say but it comes down to opinion I think
Charles
Bivins
Johnson
Maxim
Ray
Is a better five then
Louis
Sharkey
Uzcudun
Stribling
Hamas
Walcott imo won the first Louis fight (from the rounds we have). That also means something.

 

A number of years ago someone here posted Nat Fleishers ratings from around the 1950s I think. At that time he rated Max Schmeling at #1 all time at heavy. I don’t have this source. Nor am I big believer in Fleisher’s opinions. But a lot of old school historians placed Schmeling very high.

 

On the Sharkey bouts - Both have arguments on paper that make them tricky to derive rankings from. First was a DQ win, second was a disputed loss. Sharkey and Schmeling could both argue for asterisks.

I personally like the approach taken by another poster (whose name I don't remember, sorry): Look at the two fights collectively in a round by round sense. I think when they did that, Sharkey and Schmeling came out about even. Not a bad result against the other top guy of the era.

 

I have not seen any list of Fleischer's where he had Max Schmeling at #1. Those I have seen have Schmeling at #9 with Jack Johnson being his pick for #1 (and none of Charles, Walcott, nor Patterson were on the list). If he had other lists at other points I would be most interested.

 

As an aside, I remember when I was a revisionist for arguing that Schmeling deserved to be ranked near Frazier because he had arguably the best win in heavyweight history. Ah, how the tables have turned...

 

Had Gene Tunney stuck around and defended against Schmeling, and lost (as I believe he would have, making Schmeling Champion sooner), it would be very interesting to see where Schmeling would be ranked today. Jack Sharkey, Primo Carnera, and Joe Louis may have been beaten in their first title attempts. Who knows what would happen then? Would Max Baer have taken the title from Schmeling? Joe Louis? We'll never know.