Top 5 Super Middle Weights of all time?

These always throw up great debates.

Really, it depends what criteria you use.

Are you ranking just on ability?

Just on accomplishments?

Or both?


Roy Jones was only there for a few years. But he was in his prime, and probably holds one of the best wins in the history of the division. IMHO, based on ability, Roy was the GOAT at the weight.

Joe Calzaghe is most people’s number 1, based on both ability and accomplishments. IMHO, he was never as great as a prime version of Roy, but I wouldn’t argue with anybody who proclaimed him as the GOAT.

Sven Ottke is very interesting. I was never a fan at the time, but in terms of accomplishments, he has to be rated there with his defences. He was also a very technical fighter with great skills.

James Toney was a great SMW when he was in form, but like Roy, he only spent a few years there.

Andre Ward was also a great fighter who won the S6 with an injured hand.


IMHO, listing a top 5 is extremely difficult. Because you really should try and have Eubank in there like Bailey has noted. But then who do you leave out?

Canelo is in the prime of his life now and is looking outstanding. In terms of ability, you could certainly make a case. You could for his accomplishments too, despite him not being there for a prolonged period.

So I could definitely give you a top 10 in no order after Roy and Joe, but to me, a top 5 is just too hard.


If I had to pick, I think I’d have to go with:

Roy
Joe
Toney
Ward
Eubank

That’s unfair on Ottke though.

 

1.Calzaghe
2.RJJ
3.Ward
4.Alvarez
5.Kessler

 

I respectfully disagree.

They’re not valid enough reasons to omit Ward. And those fights with Kovalev weren’t at SMW.

You’ve got Froch on there, yet Ward beat him with absolute ease in the final of the S6 with a double fractured hand.

Andre Ward has to be in the top 5 on ability and resume.

Steve Collins has a poor resume at the weight. He barely beat a faded Eubank in their first fight, before winning a rematch and then fighting a shot Benn. And the only reason he fought Benn twice, is because Benn was injured in their first fight. So although the names of Benn and Eubank x 2 look great on paper, in reality, they weren’t.

You could definitely argue that Ward, Roy and Toney have better SMW resumes.

Regarding Roy, I don’t think there’s been anybody better at the weight.

I’d be interested to know why you rate Canelo so highly.

Is that based mostly on his ability?


Good debate.

 

I love these debates. But you always rate Collins too highly.

 

I can’t agree with you. To me it’s just a paper stat.

Whilst the others didn’t beat other title holders, they beat better competition.

The quality of the opponents and the manner of victory means more to me than being an official title holder.

Canelo can’t be number 1 based on his resume.

You could only rate him as the number 1 if you think that he’s the greatest fighter at the weight based upon his ability.

 

That too, his ability. I wouldn't argue with you that he hasn't faced the kind of competition that existed at SMW in the past, like back when the Super 6 tournament happened. But you can only fight the best guys in the division, and Canelo went after all the Champs one by one, and pretty much dominated each of them. I'm not sure anyone on that list could do that quite like Canelo did.

Remember something in ya'll musta forgot, when Roy said "and they have the nerve to say I fight nobody, I just make em look like nobody."

Well, Canelo made Smith, Saunders and Plant look like nobody.

 

Good debate.


Just a few points:


Eubank didn’t beat Benn at SMW. It was at MW.

Michael Watson was a world class fighter.

Thulani Malinga was a good fighter.

Tony Thornton and Lindell Holmes certainly weren’t bums.

 

He’s doing great at the moment.

It’s just a shame that the divisions not stronger.

 

Same could be said of RJJ when he was at SMW. The difference is Roy had someone at SMW who was deserving and wanted desperately to fight him. Steve Collins. Roy wanted none of Steve. Canelo took out all the Champs there, one by one, Roy never did that.

 

Collins has always portrayed the role of the victim. But the truth is: He was more than happy to fight Eubank and Benn x 2 in 1995 and 1996.

He loved those fights.

The saga has been done to death.

There was only a very small window of opportunity for them to fight at SMW. Roy was only there 2 years. And he made the decision to move up to LHW when he couldn’t obtain fights with the WBC and the WBA champions.

Canelo is doing great but he had the OPPORTUNITY to fight those other champions.

Yes, we can say that Canelo did something that Roy never did. But that doesn’t mean that he has a better resume at the weight.

Roy easily beat and knocked out Thulani Malinga.

Roy embarrassed Toney, who was coming off of knockout wins over Charles Williams and Tim Littles.

Roy easily beat Tony Thornton.

Roy easily beat Eric Lucas after playing semi-pro basketball.

So I don’t think that Canelo has a better resume.

 

He was simply never the same fighter after the Watson tragedy.

The Watson tragedy took a huge mental toll on him and his ITV/SKY contract burnt him out physically.

I lived through the era and watched it all unfold.

Sure, Collins deserves credit for beating him. And especially after psyching him out with mental games in their rematch.

It’s just that Eubank was faded.

It doesn’t matter how old he was.

It was ring mileage.

Collins seems to get huge credit for beating an undefeated Eubank. But the truth is, Eubank was extremely lucky not to have fought Collins with at least 3 losses on his resume. He admits himself that he lost the Benn (rematch) and Schommer fights, and the two fights with Ray Close were also highly debatable.

Collins has very good but not great wins over Eubank.

 

Great points about Eubank after the Watson tragedy. He was never the same after that, not mentally, you don't just move on after something like that. It takes a toll, it effects your preparation and ability to perform. Many people don't understand that age is just a number. You can be past prime at 27 or still in your prime at 35. It's about ring mileage, lifestyle, etc. Age is truly just a number and many boxing fans don't get that.

 

Great post.

 

Yeah like GGG fans when he lost to Canelo.

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Debatable but Loudon's point still stands, he was not the same after the Watson tragedy.

 

It’s not an excuse though is it.

Eubank wouldn’t finish people in the same manner after the Watson tragedy.

His schedule was also taxing.