What is your assessment of Jack Dempsey?

Regarding Jack Dempsey, I believe famed iconic trainer Ray Arcel said it best, "He was great. But he could have been greater if after winning the championship he had concentrated more on being a fighter than being an actor." In his march to the title shot with Jess Willard, and after meeting up with Jack Kearns, Dempsey developed into a fierce, fearsome fighting machine. But after winning the title, Dempsey and his manager borrowed a page from quite a few of his predecessors by taking to the stage, circus, etc. to capitalize on the title and make some fast and easy money. Regarding title defenses, Kearns in his autobiography, "The Million Dollar Gate" stated that he set out to make Dempsey's title defenses spectacular events. He was quite successful in this in his mastery of the art of hype and ballyhoo. Kearns made friends with members of the press and others who were wealthy and connected and often manipulated them to each other's mutual advantage. He thus made the Carpentier bout into a 'battle of the century' (which it in reality was anything but) and the first million dollar gate. Kearns also admitted to having Dempsey go out and slug with Firpo rather than box him to an easy victory, and how it almost backfired on him when he saw his fighter go flying out of the ring in that wild first round. Dempsey held the title seven years, but despite the million dollar gates there were long periods of inactivity in the ring. Perennial top contender Harry Wills never received a title shot. A couple attempts were made, most notably by Floyd Fitzsimmons, but it never came to fruition. It is a match that should have taken place. A match with Harry Greb would have been another prospective match, even though the latter was a middleweight. That would have probably been a no-win situation for Dempsey because of the size disparity, but Greb had defeated several of the fighters Dempsey had defended the title against as well as other heavyweights so a good case could be made for him deserving a chance at the title. I believe that Dempsey would have been victorious over both Wills and Greb which would have enhanced his legacy considerably.

Fitting in very well with the prosperity, glamour, and glitz of the exciting Roaring '20s, Dempsey and Kearns, along with promoter Tex Rickard, took boxing to unprecedented heights. Sold out main events were held in major league ballparks whereas just a few decades earlier boxing was banned in many areas with bouts in secret on barges or border towns. The rich and famous, politicians, and mobsters now appeared regularly and routinely at ringside. I can understand how the call of Hollywood glamour would appeal to someone who a few years earlier had been a hobo, taking fights and whatever odd jobs he could find just to survive. Like many others who would follow him, Dempsey liked the good life, riches, and fame. And it adversely affected his ring career. And like many others before and after him, after winning the title he effectively became a part-time fighter and perhaps more than part-time performer. To his credit, after retiring he stayed in the public eye, appearing at various events, and running his Broadway restaurant. He was readily accessible to his fans. I corresponded with him by mail during his latter years. To sum it up, he was a great fighter with a lot of charisma and natural ability that with hard work took him to the title. His title reign was not so great. Ray Arcel nailed it. In later life, he was a fixture at major boxing events, an elder statesman of the sport, and was always accessible and gracious to his fans. When he passed in 1983, I went to his viewing. I stood in line waiting to get into the funeral home and around me were some people who had worked for him in his restaurant. They spoke freely of what a pleasure it had been working for him.

 

Elite opponents :
Tunney : 0-2
Sharkey : 1-0 (should have been 0-1 DQ)
Gibbons : 1-0

He missed out on the other 2 elite boxers of his time :
Wills
Greb

Other notable wins :
Willard had been out for 3 years, and wouldn't fight for another 4.
Carpentier was a MW who would go 7-4-1 on his subsequent fights
Gunboat Smith was losing most of his fights at that stage of his career

Fulton, Brennan, Miske, Firpo, Fireman Jim Flynn, Battling Levinsky are good wins, but they amassed like 200 losses between them.

Imagine that someone with this career was considered the best ever by his contemporaries, and still make most top 10 HW ATG to this day.

 

He had ring wear but it was mostly because of his inactivity and lack of motivation period which cause him to gain copious amounts of weight

 

Main thing about Dempsey was that he awed his opponents as much or more than anyone in history

 

The power and hand speed are there and he's got quick feet and decent range ( 77 " ). But his punch out put and effectiveness wanes after a few rounds. Not a defensive fighter, and could be handled in a clinch. Chin is okay, nothing beyond that. Competition overall that he beat is weak.

 

For someone who was stopped twice in his long career while being agressive brawler with inconsistent defense who faced a lot of punchers, that seems unlikely.

 

Thanks for the reply mate. That's bizarre and i think a little silly and most definitely unfair IMO given the time span. I saw a guy say it was a permaban in Antman's "Unforgiven" movie thread and was going to inquire but thought nah it couldn't be. It's not like you go around stirring rubbish non stop like a lot of trolls do in here over and over in username after username.

Maybe @McGrain can do something.

 

Absolute study pony.

 

If you put dempsey in a time machine right before the willard fight and brought him to 2022 hed destroy all the heavyweights active today. Then give him good food and modern training he would get up to 210 pounds and probably kill these fighters today if he still had the hungry fighter mindset. Dude had too much mental strength and bone density for these current fighters.

 

ATG man eating machine.

 

Tough as teak, and one of the most hungry fighters to ever lace up the gloves. Explosive - with both speed and power. He was very light on his feet and moved better than most heavyweights before and after.

His chin and stamina were solid, but could let him down.
His best defense was a good offense, and he could blitz out opponents in the first four rounds at near the same level as Tyson and Foreman.

Yet he still had the skill and power to take fighters out in the later rounds as well.

His downfall was reaching the top, and then resting on his laurels. The hunger now satiated. He became a sensation and remained one because of his versatility both inside and outside the ring.

A truly ATG champion who could even beat the modern super heavies. He just cannot be counted out in his prime against any man.

 

Carpentier was the reigning LHvy Champ.

 

The big gates were built up by Rickard not Kearns.

 

I didn't know that. Anyway, he spent the better part of his career at MW and lower classes