Biggest things armchair boxing historians get wrong

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Feb 18, 2022.


  1. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Loma uses one now.
     
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  2. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    What is an armchair historian? Is it someone who watches fights and reads about them from the comfort of his armchair? If it is, what exactly is wrong or negative about that?
     
  3. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    An armchair historian would be someone who doesn't have firsthand experience either as a boxer, or as someone embedded in the boxing community (a coach, promoter, nutritionist, whatever.)

    There's nothing wrong with being an armchair historian, although some people tend to criticize armchair folks. But I'd expect being an armchair historian (or fan) would give you a different perspective than someone who has actually participated directly in the world of boxing. It's a similar type of contrast between an anthropologist who does fieldwork / participant ethnography, and some other types of academics who reach their conclusions from their armchairs.
     
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  4. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    That the better fighter winning is more likely than one with the style advantage. Or that the styles at play between fighters matters more than the difference in quality.
     
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  5. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT banned Full Member

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    Might be favoured in that area of the world - Kostya might be a role model also - just guessing but I don’t know these things for a fact.

    Loma is Ukrainian of course. Tszyu moved back to Russia in 2012 - runs a restaurant in Moscow. Left the sunny shores/beaches and agreeable climate and culture of Australia - interesting move. KT also loved the Aussie beer - had a special home fridge so that he could tap mini kegs and dispense straight from the fridge door - VB was his beer of choice I think - and a developing little pot belly told the story. LOL.

    Anyway, that would make for an interesting thread - boxing apparel/devices/ equipment that came and went or at least didn’t necessarily take hold over the greater boxing fraternity.

    In Louis’ time I know they came up with inventive gear to better protect his long suffering sparring partners. I know boxers shouldn’t unnecessarily inflict punishment in sparring but I guess if it was unavoidable for any given style of fighter perhaps it would be the express punchers like the Brown Bomber.

    I saw photos of Shavers’ sparring partners in a boxing mag. years back - holy mother of pearl, they looked like they’d been hit by a train at super high speed, - the Shavers Cannon Ball Express! That’s one train you’d be glad to miss.
     
  6. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Was Jack Fiske an armchair historian?Hank Kaplan?Lou DiBella?Herb Goldman?Dan Cuoco?
     
  7. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT banned Full Member

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    I think we’re focusing in on common pitfalls of abstract assessment. Doesn’t mean every armchair historian is thusly afflicted.

    One of the biggest and most irksome traits is the all too easy assignment of lack of courage or cowardice - particularly when the armchairer has never exhibited courage of their own or have been similarly tested.

    It’s actually irrational to put life and limb at unconditional risk for the sake of a single boxing match. Fook that.

    I say just be appreciative of those crazy mo fos that do fight thusly - highly uncommon, exceptional commitment.

    For the rest of our boxers, just normal folk who can’t be criticised because really, if you do knock them you’re actually reducing the due credit that should be afforded to the limitless warriors.
     
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  8. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Some of the guys you listed promoted fights, interviewed fighters, frequented gyms, knew the major figures in boxing, acted as publicists for fighters, and performed other "insider" activities that would disqualify them from armchair status.

    There are also bound to also be people who sit on the borderline between armchair and non-armchair.

    And then there are those who are definitely in the armchair category. I myself am an obvious armchair fan (not even historian.) There's at least one other former member of this forum (and member of IBRO, IIRC), Mendoza, whom you would presumably consider an armchair person par excellence. Once upon a time, Revolver, assuming he was actually the sociology professor he claimed to be rather than just a troll, was an armchair boxing historian. Revolver applied his sociological theories and academic database research to boxing, and did so from his armchair. He didn't box, interview fighters, promote fights, act as a judge or referee, sit on any boxing regulatory boards, act as a publicist, or even (as far as I know) ever enter a boxing gym.

    So that's the dividing line for this thread. It isn't perfect, but it's what I'm curious about. And it's broad enough that I'm fine with individual people's answers. The whole point was to brainstorm potential blindspots for people who mostly follow boxing from home, at a distance.
     
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  9. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    I think it bothers people too much to just say "I am a casual, arm chair fan" opposed to sparring a few times and seeing the inside of more then one gym and claiming "In" status. Lot's of guys call themselves "Historians" instead lol.
     
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  10. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Sounds like a good opening address for an anonymous support group meeting of recovering historians.

    "Hello, I'm Cross_Trainer, and I'm a casual armchair fan."

    "Hello, Cross_Trainer."
     
  11. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT banned Full Member

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    Armchair is one thing - what about being an armchair kid?

    I remember watching fights with my Dad when I was just 7 or 8. Say a 10 rd’r - by the late rounds I often complained that the fighters weren’t punching enough - and if it was me in there, I’d be doing this, that and the other, punching every second - I must’ve though I was Harry Greb BEFORE I even knew who Greb was.

    My Dad patiently explained that fighters get tired - Dad knew there was no undue slowing of the action when the preceding rounds and action therein was duly accounted for.

    Still showing no clue as to stamina and natural fatigue, I just said well okay, but remaining with my naive delusion, I added BUT If it was ME in there I’d be……LOL…my appreciation of two humans fighting must’ve been equivalent to the depth of understanding I had for my non fatiguing and impervious to pain Rock’em’Sock’em’ Robots. Ha.

    Now as a duly empathetic adult I can’t help but “feel” the energy being used and hurt inflicted from first bell….
     
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  12. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT banned Full Member

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    Could you please outline the 12 step recovery program for same.

    Who do you have to apologise to first? I guess you have to steer clear of any and all armchairs going forward - even when civilly invited to indulge in same - you don’t want to “fall of the wagon”, or fall into the armchair, so to speak, - because notwithstanding abstinence - you always remain a vulnerable, armchairoholic.
     
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  13. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    I won't ask you if you're inquiring for yourself or a friend, but the first step is to simply come in and let Armchair Recoverers Anonymous take it from there. Don't worry -- we are a very welcoming community, meeting twice weekly at a local mall karate dojo. We have crumpets.
     
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  14. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT banned Full Member

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    You’re too kind.

    I’ve always been partial to a bit of crumpet - but that’s another addiction again which I’m not willing to let go of at this point in time…if ever.
     
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  15. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    We're easy to get ahold of. Just Google "Who wins Marciano vs Carnera?" and you'll get the following message:

    NEED HELP AND SUPPORT? CALL THE ARMCHAIR HELPLINE AT...
     
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