Can anyone past 1990 be reasonably put in top 5-10 AT p4p lists?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Kell Macabe, Mar 10, 2022.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well he also outboxed Joe Gans. So he won a fight against a (barnstorming) ATG fighter - also a top ten fighter - at 140lbs as a teenager. And he knocked out a top twenty ATG heavyweight several times a decade later.

    In between he beat ATGs from every division he graced. Amazing.

    But excluding him from the ATG 1 spot because he never held a belt is OK by me.

    However...it's very clear you don't understand Langford. That's absolutely clear from some of the things you've written. Your inaccurate, debunked opinions on how he was regarded in his own era has shown that - as I've said, this is very easily corrected and if you want to be "lazy" about it, all you have to do is read one book.
     
    McGrain, Mar 12, 2022
    McGrain, Mar 12, 2022
    #61
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  2. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Augustus lit Floyd up.
     
    mark ant, Mar 12, 2022
    mark ant, Mar 12, 2022
    #62
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  3. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    If Duran retired after his first fight with Ray, his career and legacy would be awesome.
     
    mark ant, Mar 12, 2022
    mark ant, Mar 12, 2022
    #63
  4. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Laing was a lot bigger than Duran and Lawlor beat Duran at super-middle going on to lose a rematch.
     
    mark ant, Mar 12, 2022
    mark ant, Mar 12, 2022
    #64
  5. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Which top 20 all-time great heavyweight would that be?
     
    Dubblechin, Mar 12, 2022
    Dubblechin, Mar 12, 2022
    #65
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Harry Wills.
     
    McGrain, Mar 12, 2022
    McGrain, Mar 12, 2022
    #66
  7. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :hang

    Do you honestly think Harry Wills is one of the 20 best heavyweights who ever lived?

    Or, without him, all you've got is a win over a lightweight?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2022
    Dubblechin, Mar 12, 2022
    Dubblechin, Mar 12, 2022
    #67
  8. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Lawlor didn't beat Duran, fat Duran quit again. It was the lowlight on the Tyson-Ruddock card, which I bought.

    This content is protected
     
    Dubblechin, Mar 12, 2022
    Dubblechin, Mar 12, 2022
    #68
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  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, same as the forum did when they voted upon it in a couple of poll.

    But say he's not even in the top 500.

    Gans defeated Joe Gans at 140lbs, extraordinary fighters at every weight in between that weight and heavyweight and then became one of the very best heavyweights of the era - the best according to the likes of John Sullivan, Charlie White, Bill Lang, Harry Wills and a bunch of other guys who make a total lie of your statements as to how he was viewed in his own era. Langford was seen my many leading lights of the day as the very best fighter there was.

    After scoring ATG wins at 140lbs, 160lbs, 175lbs.

    It's an astonishing achievement, absolutely unparalleled. Nobody else has ever done anything remotely like it.
     
    McGrain, Mar 12, 2022
    McGrain, Mar 12, 2022
    #69
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  10. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Harry Wills is not a top 20 heavyweight all time.

    He probably was in 1922. But it's not 1922. It's 2022. Sam Langford isn't the best fighter who ever lived. Harry Wills isn't in the top 20 heavyweights all time.

    There have been thousands of fighters since then.

    Big Bill Tate wasn't even the best "Big Tate" in boxing history.

    I've got to go now.
     
    Dubblechin, Mar 12, 2022
    Dubblechin, Mar 12, 2022
    #70
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    You said that; I said, yes, that's fine. Then explained to you why even that disagreement made only a limited impact on Langford's astounding legacy. That's how astonishing it is - if you take my perception of his ranking 18, say, and exchange it for an arbitrary one of his ranking 501, he's still dusting some of the best heavies of his era while (probably) still comfortably able to make the 160lb limit in Hagler's.

    It's so incredible as to be bizarre as to remain unparalleled. As in, nobody else has been able to recreate it. A hundred years later it remains unique.
     
    McGrain, Mar 12, 2022
    McGrain, Mar 12, 2022
    #71
  12. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Ah...the Big Dog! I'm a huge fan.
     
    ETM, Mar 12, 2022
    ETM, Mar 12, 2022
    #72
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  13. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Me too.
     
    Fergy, Mar 12, 2022
    Fergy, Mar 12, 2022
    #73
  14. quest00

    quest00 Member Full Member

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    Come on now, be honest with yourself. Name the "Many" times he clearly lost Please. He had a close win vs Castillo and a competitive fight with Maidana. Cut it out. How many legends can you name who haven't had competitive fights, losses or controversial fights. Very slim to none. Give the man credit for a change. He is obviously one of the greatest fighters in the last 20-30 years and of all time along with Manny. Its ok to give him his props...geez
     
    quest00, Mar 13, 2022
    quest00, Mar 13, 2022
    #74
  15. quest00

    quest00 Member Full Member

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    I suggest you do some homework on Langford. He stood roughly 5'7 and fought from Lightweight to Heavyweight. Fighting and beating legendary fighters such as Joe Gans who is regarded as one of the greatest lightweight of all time, the Barbados demon Joe Walcot, Tiger Flowers, ketchel and Harry Wills. He was highly regarded as one of the best fighters of his era. Jack Dempsey was quoted as saying he wanted nothing to do with Sam Lanford and praised him as well as many other fighters and boxing historians of the time. As was stated before most of his losses came when he was way past his best and fighting half blind
     
    quest00, Mar 13, 2022
    quest00, Mar 13, 2022
    #75
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