2016 Luis Ortiz vs 2016 Anthony Joshua

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by NEETzschean, Mar 15, 2022.


Who wins?

Poll closed Mar 22, 2022.

  1. Ortiz

    14 vote(s)
    25.5%

  2. Bodybuilder

    41 vote(s)
    74.5%
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  1. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    *2017

    Joshua: 28 years old, boxing since age 18, 3.7 years as an amateur, won the 2012 Olympics in Britain at SHW, 19-0 as a pro (19 inside the distance, 5 in the first round) billed as 6’6 with an 82 inch reach, 250 lbs, knocked down once as a pro, orthodox.

    Ortiz: officially 38.5 years old, boxing since age 10, at least 9 years on the Cuban national team, won the 2005 Pan American Games in Brazil at HW, 27-0 as a pro with 2 NC's (27/29 inside the distance, 8 in the first round) billed as 6’2-6'4 with a 78 inch reach, 240 lbs, never knocked down as a pro, southpaw.

    AJ's record against Cubans (2012 Savon) southpaws (2011 Nistor, 2012 Cammarelle, 2021 Usyk) and front foot counter punchers (2019 Ruiz) hasn’t been good, which strongly suggests that Ortiz would have been a stylistic nightmare for him.

    Ortiz would have the advantage in time boxing (27.5+ years vs close to 10) amateur experience (allegedly 362-368 bouts vs 43) professional experience (7.7 years as a pro, 29 fights with 120 rounds contested, 96 completed, gone the 12 round distance and fought in 8 nations as a pro vs 4 years as a pro, 19 fights with 55 rounds contested, 36 completed, never gone past the 11th round and fought in 1 nation as a pro but beat the best opponent) skill (2 pro rounds lost vs 8) ring IQ, stance, style, power, chin, nationality, hunger, composure, confidence, fighting instincts, heart and having less film to study. In February 2019, Abel Sanchez said that he turned down a fight with a post-Wilder 1, officially 40 year old Ortiz for his charge: the de-facto 2016 Olympic champion at SHW, 33 year old, 11 years in boxing, 7-0 pro Joe Joyce. Even Hearn said in September 2021 that "no one wants to fight Ortiz" and that was a virtually 22 months inactive, officially 42.5 year old Ortiz with 36 pro fights, 4 heavy KD’s received and 2 KO defeats.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2022
    NEETzschean, Mar 15, 2022
    NEETzschean, Mar 15, 2022
    #1
  2. Furey

    Furey EST & REG 2009 Full Member

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    AJ
     
    Furey, Mar 15, 2022
    Furey, Mar 15, 2022
    #2
  3. Themessiah

    Themessiah El Jefe Full Member

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    1970s Ortiz KO's AJ for sure, not sure about 2016
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2022
    Themessiah, Mar 15, 2022
    Themessiah, Mar 15, 2022
    #3
    kriszhao, Howitzer1888, MarkusFlorez99 and 6 others like this.
  4. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

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    Joshua of course. Anyone who says otherwise is a biased Deontay Wilder slobberknobber with a propensity for writing wordy meaningless posts. Not singling anyone out, you understand.
     
    It's Ovah, Mar 15, 2022
    It's Ovah, Mar 15, 2022
    #4
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  5. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Had Hearn thought so he wouldn't have signed Ortiz to put him on the shelf or rob him (like Hunter, Hrgovic, Usyk, Bivol). And had Ruiz been a Wilder defence and Wilder KO'd him, AJ fans would have said that he's a crap fighter, with the Liakhovich and Johnson fights being solid supporting evidence. Ruiz was vastly less highly regarded than Ortiz with far less impressive wins and little KO power, yet he dropped AJ 4 times and made him quit. So there is no "Joshua of course" about it if you're objective, especially considering that AJ was relatively green in mid-late 2016 compared to mid 2019 when he got destroyed and Ortiz was closer to his physical prime than when he fought Wilder in early 2018.

    But you're not interested in debating anything and I'm not interested in exchanging insults with you or anyone else on this forum, so I'll just save time and block you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2022
    NEETzschean, Mar 15, 2022
    NEETzschean, Mar 15, 2022
    #5
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  6. Wizbit1013

    Wizbit1013 Drama go, and don't come back Full Member

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    AJ

    Ortiz was always ridiculously overrated
     
    Wizbit1013, Mar 15, 2022
    Wizbit1013, Mar 15, 2022
    #6
    It's Ovah, tee_birch, kriszhao and 3 others like this.
  7. Wizbit1013

    Wizbit1013 Drama go, and don't come back Full Member

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    Both of those fights i believe were part of PBC giving AJ the Martin shot

    Not much they could do otherwise
     
    Wizbit1013, Mar 15, 2022
    Wizbit1013, Mar 15, 2022
    #7
  8. Mitch87

    Mitch87 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    AJ levels above. Ortiz is slow footed and very open defensively (e.g. Wilder, Hammer and Martin all found it easy to land on Ortiz). You only have to look at each others records to see gulf in quality of wins. Ortiz best win (Jennings) wouldn't get into AJs top 7 opponents he has beaten (Wlad, Povetkin, Whyte, Parker, Ruiz, Pulev and Takam). Whilst I would argue AJ has beaten 6 opponents better than Ortiz.
     
    Mitch87, Mar 15, 2022
    Mitch87, Mar 15, 2022
    #8
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  9. Mitch87

    Mitch87 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Also a myth that Hearn signed Ortiz to protect AJ from him. Ortiz whilst with MR was offered the Whyte fight but turned it down to fight lesser opposition in which he had unimpressive peformances against Malik and Allen.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2022
    Mitch87, Mar 15, 2022
    Mitch87, Mar 15, 2022
    #9
    LoadedGlove likes this.
  10. Safin

    Safin Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Nobody can say "Joshua of course" with a straight face after he was battered from pillar to post by Rice Pudding Jr who previously couldn't even stun the likes of Liakhovich, who would have been dropped by a swift gust of wind by that point in time.

    Joshua vs Ortiz is interesting, but I'd have to favour Ortiz. One punch on Joshua and he'd do a funny dance.
     
    Safin, Mar 15, 2022
    Safin, Mar 15, 2022
    #10
    pacas, Thunderstorm and NEETzschean like this.
  11. Belfast

    Belfast Member Full Member

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    Sep 2, 2019

    Ortiz got put heavy on his ass by a jab from Charles Martin, aka the worst heavyweight champion of all time when Joshua breezed him over


    Ortiz is one of those guys who wins hypothetical fights but has never actually won one.

    As for his amazing technical abilities, the guy twice made a basic mistake and moved himself onto two straight rights two fights in a row from one of the worst technical heavyweights on a long time
     
    Belfast, Mar 15, 2022
    Belfast, Mar 15, 2022
    #11
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  12. Belfast

    Belfast Member Full Member

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    The HBO commentary during the Malik Scott fight was brilliant, they were realising in real time that Ortiz is pretty crap, Chisora was able to walk down negative Malik and make him quit in five rounds, Ortiz couldn't get near him. As horrifically negative as Scott was being, Ortiz showed that he sure as hell couldn't close a gap
     
    Belfast, Mar 15, 2022
    Belfast, Mar 15, 2022
    #12
    Mitch87 likes this.
  13. f1ght3rz

    f1ght3rz Ronaldoooo is crying in his caaaaaar Full Member

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    Easy win for King Kong Ortiz. Maybe even via stoppage. Joshua has no idea how to fight against a world class lefty with incredible counter punching abilities. Imagine what a roided Ortiz from 2013 or so would have done to AJ. But even the 2016 version would have literally destroyed Joshua.
     
    f1ght3rz, Mar 15, 2022
    f1ght3rz, Mar 15, 2022
    #13
    NEETzschean likes this.
  14. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Ortiz would have toyed with AJ he`s far skilled and AJ couldn`t deal with Usyk`s southpaw stance.
     
    mark ant, Mar 15, 2022
    mark ant, Mar 15, 2022
    #14
    NEETzschean likes this.
  15. ipitythefool

    ipitythefool Prediction ? Pain Full Member

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    2016 so Ortiz would be about 70.

    I'm going for AJ.

    OK Ortiz has enough skills to make it awkward . But he's always been very slow and AJ would tee off on him and has decent punch variety. Ko by rnd 8.
     
    ipitythefool, Mar 15, 2022
    ipitythefool, Mar 15, 2022
    #15
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