the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Always wanted to check this one out.

Richie Kates v Matt Franklin (Matthew Saad Muhammad) - Philly's 5 point must system

Round 1: 5-4 Franklin
Round 2: 5-3 Franklin (although the knockdown was disallowed, Franklin battered Kates somewhat for the extra point on my card)
Round 3: 5-4 Franklin
Round 4: 5-3 Kates (scored a knockdown)
Round 5: 5-3 Franklin (scored a knockdown)
Round 6: Franklin drops and stops Kates

Total through 5 completed rounds: 23-19 Franklin (actual scores not known)

Man, did these two go at it. About that 2nd round. Although ruled a slip, from the angle of the viewer, it sure looked like a knockdown to me, but it is what it is. Great contest and another miracle comeback from that 4th round by Miracle Matthew.

 

I was there live.

 

Damn, that had to have been something.

 

I’m not talking about numbers — I’m talking about resumes and having meaningful wins. The 11-0 guy with three wins over guys with winning records (none of whom have beaten anyone of note, none of whom have more than 10-11 fights on their records) … I’m asking what you see in that. I’m trying to understand how beating that guy is a good win.

I agree that the cruiserweights were exciting in that you had a bunch of guys with potential who were all more or less nobodies and they fought each other. But out of all that, Huck is like the only one who had done anything you could hang your hat on and say ‘he’s done something.’

Same with Leonard, as I’m bringing up for the third time — is his resume better at say 12-0 than it was when he had fought the likes of Mayweather Sr., Chiaverini, Shields, Ranzany and Price? Those aren’t just numbers — they’re quality guys.

 

I've already answered this.

Watch the fight, look at what he did since.

This is why it's impressive.

As for your view on CW, it's too far apart to really discuss.

 

I’ve watched Hunter. He’s a somewhat tricky guy who can present style problems to some people. I think he’s a journeyman, basically, as far as talent level — he presents some awkward angles, he has little or no snap on his punches, he doesn’t appear to be in great shape (nor does his workrate reflect that he is). He’s a very, very poor man’s Jimmy Young (but to underscore, nowhere near that level).

I don’t think he’s accomplished much of note since. The fact that he was in the world title scene with as little of a resume as he had, and didn’t show some amazing skill that popped out as ‘well no wonder he’s up here, look how good he is,’ then to me he’s a guy who could have just as easily been fighting 8-rounders on New Jersey undercards.

Let me round up a bunch of guys with 11-0, 14-1-1 type records and have them all fight each other in a tournament and one of them would come out on top. But it doesn’t mean that the guys who didn’t come out on top were actually good.

 

Pat, Hunter is nowhere near journey man level in terms of talent. You're way off base there.

 

Mate, you can't just obsess over the numbers. These guys are actual fighters who you can watch fight and can see who they've beaten.

For a guy like Hunter, to seize his opportunity and start the way he did against Usyk speaks volumes.

He's now a top 10 HW by anyone's consideration.

I just don't see what you're seeing at all.

 

Upon what do you base this conclusion? What on his resume says he’s above that?

He’s a guy who you can rank 10th in a weak heavyweight division if you’re an alphabet organization and you choose him over a bunch of others who haven’t done anything of note, but he’s not what I’d call a true contender.

 

It’s not about numbers. I’ve said that a half dozen times here. It’s about substance. When a guy who has only fought 11 times and only three of them against fighters who have a winning record, you can’t look on film and say ‘but he looked really good against this other guy with 11 fights who has never beaten anyone, so therefore he must be a good fighter.

If Mike Tyson or Evander Holyfield or Sugar Ray Robinson fought 11 times and three of them were against guys with winning records (none of whom had more than 11 fights) and retired, would you put them in the Hall of Fame because ‘it’s not a numbers game’?

 

Re-watched Kennedy McKinney v Welcome Ncita 1 yesterday.

Still one of my favourite fights. The action ramps up beautifully throughout the rounds and comes to a crescendo in the 10th and then the 11th, which is a classic round. It won KO of the year in 1992 but could have also won round of the year (I think that went to Bowe-Holyfield round 10) and Fight of the Year (though Bowe-Holy and Kelley-Dorsey were the two other standout fights).

I didn’t score it this time but last time I think I had it dead even going into the 11th. If you haven’t seen it, do yourselves a favour and watch it. It’s marvellous.

 

In all honesty i thought Moorer vs Cooper round 1 and McKinney vs Ncita round 11, were better rounds than Holyfield vs Bowe round 10.

And i've only seen Kelley vs Dorsey fight once, so i don't remember specific rounds. But i do remember loving the fight i would score it again if it was on Youtube.

 

Lennox Lewis vs Evander Holyfield 2

1 Holyfield
2 Lewis
3 Holyfield
4 Lewis
5 Lewis
6 Holyfield
7 Holyfield
8 Lewis
9 Lewis
10 Lewis
11 Lewis
12 Holyfield

115-113 Lewis

So i had to score this one again, after hearing people recently saying they scored it for Holyfield.

Me personally i can't really see an argument for Holyfield winning this fight, i even gave him the 1st round which was very close and could of gone to Lewis.

The first 7 rounds i actually had Holyfield ahead which surprised me, he was competing well with Lewis with the jab. Jabbing him to the chest and body, and Lewis's jab was nowhere near as effective as it was in the first fight.

But after the 7th round Holyfield just didn't do enough, i can't really see a round you could give Holyfield after the 7th. Apart from the 12th where Lewis mostly held, so i gave it to Holyfield based on his energy and workrate.

I feel like Holyfield could of won this fight, had he just fought harder in the 2nd half of the fight. And kept working his jab which was effective in the 6th and 7th rounds.

But he spent too many rounds just standing off and not punching, Lewis who looked tired and wasn't a bundle of energy himself. Just outworked and outpunched Holyfield in the later rounds to secure the win.

 

Jel, loved this fight. I had McKinney up by 1 point going into the 11th, but clearly, Ncita could've been up on anyone's card also by a similar margin. If you enjoy Ncita fights like I do, check out his 10-rounder with Hector Lizarraga. Another outstanding bout.

 

The rematch is good too, if not as overtly dramatic.