Thoughts on Bartley Gorman... Educate me.

He's clearly tough and has a bit of a screw loose, but the amount of people that claimed Roy & Len ducked them and brought autobiographies out when those two did, yet were nobodies, was unbelievable.

 

Did he best anyone known on the Bareknuckle circuit or was it just other local travelers? We hear about these bareknucklers that went undefeated but then it means they clearly all avoided each other.

 

There is no footage of him fighting ,when I questioned this on line I was told ,"BK was illegal,so you won't see any film of him,"well there is plenty of film of BK fights in the UK ,scraps held on wasteland,school playgrounds caravan sites,barns etc.Every Traveller who has ever had a BK fight is called,"The King Of The Gypsies" and," Undefeated" hyperbole,taken to the extreme.To hear these guys tell it there must have been100 or so undefeated bruisers doing the rounds,most of whom somehow never faced each other. Many of these blokes had one or two scraps and rested on their laurels ,so to speak .There is a traveller family called the Joyce's ,every generation of which seems to throw up a scrapper who challenges another traveller family its a feud that seems to have been going on for decades.A friend of mine did some "work,," with Roy Shaw for which they were both," banged up,",he told me Shaw was a nut case as aggressive as a pit bull.
Maclean was beaten up by moderate pro LHVY Johnny Waldron.
Paul Sykes was another ex pro who spent the best years of his life banged up he liked to use his mitts,he gave John L Gardner a decent row and with the right training and a brain transplant might have made some noise at Euro level.There are several docus on him and the Gardner fight is onYou Tube.
Another name who could really have a row is Cliff Field an ex pro who cut too easily big strong guy who was durable and could whack ,to put him in perspective Richard Dunn one time British Champion said Cliff was a hard man but predictable and not in my class,and we know Dunn's limitations.Gorman's relative is Nathan Gorman whom Daniel Dubois dismantled a while back,I was there,it was a good scrap but Gorman had no answer for Dubois' left jab.My Uncle was the best street fighter in my town,would he have beaten a decent pro in a contest highly unlikely.
How good was Bartley Gorman ? Who knows? He was related to Tyson Fury,no stranger himself to hyperbole

 

Didn’t McLean challenge Muhammad Ali and Ali declined?

He took the easy option and fought Frazier, Norton and Foreman instead. Clear duck.

 

Dan Rooney was the name I heard growing up. There's footage of him online I swear of it.

How about Rich something from up north? One of those teesside/tyneside hard men. Ever heard of him?

 

I remember seeing an article in a Sunday paper as a kid, with Lenny saying that ‘Mr T’ backed out of a fight against him.
That recent movie about him was total pants.

 

Dan Rooney.
[url]Rare video. Dan Rooney and Ainey McGinley bare knuckle fight & TV interview with Dan Rooney. - YouTube[/url]

 

Most of these guys have an air of humbug about them. At least McLean and Shaw appeared on film and fought each other.

We have better documentation of John L. Sullivan's bareknuckle fights -- also illegal, by the way -- in the era before film. That's not a good sign.

 

Sadly no footage but widely regarded as the top gypsy fighter of his era... and given his family lineage of Tyson, Hughie, Nathan Gorman etc his bloodline is obviously of "good stock" so to speak.

 

Pretty much everything you said is bang on, you hear all the time about how there's so many "Hard men" And how they went undefeated, well they clearly never fought each other then.

Paul Sykes actually did whoop Roy Shaw on two occasions I've heard when they were in prison and even Roy Shaw was willing to admit it and said Sykes was just too big for him.

Shaw was a tough man though no denying that as he was in his 40's when he fought on the unlicensed circuit and beat Lenny the first time, also beat Kevin Paddock who beat Lenny I believe. Shaw does have a pro fight on Boxrec listed under the name "Roy West" I know he lost to McLean twice but if you put them prime for prime I'd go with Shaw. Roy did also say Cliff Field was the real guvnor and that he wouldn't of wanted to fight him.

 

Yeah Lenny got him at the right time and had plenty of youth on his side.

Lenny was a bully. Shaw seemed genuinely hard.

 

Shaw minded a couple of joints I think one was the Ambassador Club,all he had to do was stick his head in there and that was a guarantee it wouldn't kick off.

 

I could definitely believe that, Shaw definitely had some screws loose though. He said in one video that he never started a fight it was other people but are we really gonna believe Shaw's never just punched people for no reason? C'mon!