Overlooked Reasons Why Muhammad Ali Beat George Foreman

"Because he wore a bright yellow and black check woolen shirt, Charles Liston, 22-year-old negro living in the 1000 block of O'fallon ST is being held by police as a suspect in two robberies in the past week" Source: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/98275755/the-st-louis-star-and-times/

 

Thank you Swag. According to this, if Liston's age was listed correctly as 22, he would have to be born at least no later than 1928.
But if he was more than 16 days over 22, then he was born in 1927 right?
if you have the 1928 claims you made please post them.

 

Just a point of clarification, since I was part of the other conversation, so I suppose I have some responsibility to elaborate for fairness' sake:

@Journeyman92's comment about splashing his face with urine was in the context of a satirical exchange about silly "old school" training methods. Some traditionalist athletes do seem to have an odd fixation on using urine (Lyoto Machida in MMA, for example, a traditional karate guy). And older boxers, like Dempsey, reputedly dipped their hands and/or faces in other substances like brine. As a result, the "dip your face in urine" meme has become an occasional forum joke: Salsanchezfan uses it in this thread, for example: https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...62039/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

The post you're referring to was a joke, as far as I know. Hence its allusion to "American Psycho," a dark comedy about a serial killer banker who obsesses over skincare products.

 

Yes, I guess it's feasible he was born in '27 then, but I would personally go with '28. I just took another look at the marriage license (which was posted here) and it's definitely NOT, Sonny. First off, "Liston" was spelled with a Y, and oh yeah they were white. Will look for more records, indicating he was born in 27/28.

 

You nailed an underappreciated part of this fight that Dundee always spoke of, how Ali grabbed, tussled, and grappled with Foreman and that drained George as he was throwing full power bombs. Couple that with Ali's ring I.Q. and George was in a situation he had never seen and had no answer for.

 

You really have to question Foreman's management if he had any or his own judgement .. the Toronto Five disaster that was painful to watch , fighting Lyle as a comeback opponent and then Jimmy Young in Puerto Rico ? For a long time I though maybe Foreman had no clue what he was getting into w Young but then I saw he actually acted as a commentator for Young's dicing up of Lyle and commented on just how tricky Young was so he knew ..,. George Foreman , first career and second was one eccentric dude that truly had his own mental accounting and marched to his own drummer ..

 

Toronto 5 would've been cool if it hadn't been for the commentary. Ali's pro wrestling antics and Cosell's inability to shut up about how beneath him the exhibition was ruined it.

 

Excellent provision of a newspaper source.

Thanks.

Of course Sonny might’ve lied re his age for various reasons but we can at least say he was reported in a newspaper as being 22 in 1950.

He wore bright yellow during the act of committing a crime, eh?

Too bad Sonny didn’t think to wear a cap with a propellor on top in order to be less conspicuous and blend in. Being a notably big guy wouldn’t have helped - strange thing though, I’ve read the FBI files and one of the arrests detailed (in ‘53, I can’t recall) described Liston as being of “medium” build. We should all be so “medium”. I recall reading that Liston had to have his pants tailored to accomodate his large thighs- TOTT listings indicating either 25” or 25 1/2”.

Nice heads up on the release of the 1950 census - 72 years flew by, didn’t it? Patience is a virtue. Hopefully, if there are related details therein, they won’t create more questions than they answer - the 30 (no Sonny) and 40 census (10 yo Sonny) didn’t exactly corroborate one another.

IMO, if it was ever reliably proven that Liston was already at least 36 yo by the first Ali fight, that would make quite the difference as to how his performance is viewed, and subsequent fights thereafter - incl. all the way up to Martin in ‘68, a 1928 YOB meaning Sonny was 40 when Leotis knocked him out.

 

While it might be pointed out that Ali’s man handling of Foreman was in technical breach - Foreman’s own shove, grab and push game had already been established in a number of prior fights.

Ali’s tactic was no doubt a pre-emptive strike - sent a message indicating to George you won’t be pushing and shoving me around like you have done to others - in fact, let me show you what I can do in that regard. It seriously put George off balance among a number of other tactics Ali employed.

However, as viewed in terms of propriety and context, Ali’s tactics in Zaire were different to his ridiculous holding and clinching of Frazier in fight 2 - that wasn’t a case of returning in kind in real time or in anticipation. As far as I see, Frazier was a very clean, down the barrel fighter. There might’ve been a slight hint of an intended head butt from Joe in Manila in the very late stages but then, Ali was holding Joe at the same time on that occasion also.

 

George took the bait. He at times acted like a fool. He was all over the place. Ali was obnoxious as well but it was George who choose to go that route.

 

we can start by looking at Liston. He looked old.

 

My favourite one "They say you can hit like Joe Louis don't you disappoint me!" after being hit flush "Is that all you got George!?". Foreman: "Yep" It gives me tingles when Ol George retells that story. Ali was as tough as they come. No doubt it was all aimed at taking away any thought of being too powerful or too strong like everyone told him.

 

That may be, but as a viewer, I ask, "Who ruined my viewing experience?" And it was Ali and Cosell.

If George had ignored it, I would still have to listen to it.

 

OK thanks, but also examine the citations I included, because it seems very possible that what I have believed most credible is true-he was born between 1930-1932.

 

lightning quick 1 - 2 s

Ali exposed Foreman's ponderous style and beat him to the punch while George looked to set him up

Frazier had no jab, nothing but a hook and was knocked silly