70s Foreman was a bit overrated IMO

I remember as a kid when I was just starting out following boxing, and read an old boxing encyclopedia at the local library. Went up to about Tyson and that's it. It was written before Foreman's comeback.

Their entry on Foreman didn't read as anything special. It wasn't quite at the level of, say, Baer. But it was an account of a powerful, but somewhat limited, puncher with significant weaknesses. He was a solid champ and deserved to be mentioned, but he hadn't really made a defining mark.

It's hard to get an accurate read on the guy thanks to his second career. Complicated everything.

 

Are you really gonna sit there and tell me Foreman's post loss excuses, and the Toronto 5 fiasco, were acts of a psychologically healthy man?

Please don't pull that "if you knew the sport as I do" crap with me , you already demonstrated ydksab multiple times such as your laughable claim, that Briggs deserved the decision against Foreman. You're just about the only person I've seen defend that decision.

Unless you were there, your opinion means nothing to me. If arriving to PR, less than 24 hours before the fight started, didn't have any effect on him whatsoever? Why did he pass out, and go to the hospital for a heat stroke, afterwards? Oh and before you dismiss it ass another one of Foreman's lies, I have newspaper articles where reporters and a spokesman for the hospital confirm, he was indeed being treated at the ICU for "heat prostration"

Also adding to the heat were TV lights which 'created more heat at ringside than in any recent bout except for the ali-joe bugner title match"

And what do you call the laughable claims by Journeyman, making Foreman's wins over Frazier, and Norton, to be virtually useless, and like your average Joe could've done the same. Clearly, Ali, Ellis, Young, Quarry, etc didn't get the memo.

 

Remember in this thread, Foreman has no excuses for whatsoever for his loss to Young despite highly unusual circumstances, while Foreman's wins over Norton, and Frazier mean nothing.

 

If he was from the UK, he'd have lost a lot quicker. We weren't renowned for the quality of our heavies back in the day.

 

We both know THAT'S pretty funny.

 

If you knew the boxing like yours truly, you’d know that the bigger guy with power and strength generally drains the energy form the smaller guy. The reason why the opposite happened against Young is that Foreman was a tense mess who didn’t learn how to fight as a kid and Young was a natural.

You act as if Forman’s inability to pace himself wasn’t a function of his own doing, as if Young and Ali were supernaturally impervious to heat.

The bottom line is that it took Foreman decades to win a decision over 12 and as for the Toronto 5, most of Foreman’s career was bull**** fights, particularly in his old guy comeback.

The Young fight is simply in line with who Foreman was as fighter.

 

I read your claim that Foreman was in the top 10. My argument is, if he was half as bad as you're making him out to be by saying all his losses were inexcusable, and all his huge wins, have an asterisk next to them, he wouldn't be on anyone's top 10.

Pat in particular is an excellent poster, and I very much enjoy his insight

That doesn't mean I'm not allowed to disagree with him,

Grey on the other hand seems to have an agenda against Foreman dismissing him as a ""Young" Foreman was a big strong dummy who had great ring cutting skills that only appeared in the first round against Ali" and saying things that were not true such as Ali being in shape the entirety of his exile, which photographic film proves is simply not true. To my knowledge he's not an actual trainer.

Speaking of, do you know how many trainers I can tag, or pull up quotes of that speak highly of Foreman? A lot more than two

If you were trolling when you made this comment, not only are you an immature manchild as I previously statedbut you're a despicable POS who has no business being here.

This does not contradict anything I say in anyway except for leaving out information. You were being a disagreeable ass, and downright repulsive by making fun of a foreign poster's language barrier issues. You also made that laughable goodbye thread, 25 minutes after your last post to the aforementioned foreign poster where you apologized and acknowledging you were wrong, and you're going to tell me they're not related?

My issue with you is, you're a disrespectful pos, and judging by the many comments echoing the same statements, it seems to be somewhat of a consensus on this forum!

 

Please tell me what Foreman was doing to "drain the energy" from Foreman. Jack ****. Foreman fought at a measured pace against Young, hardly threw any meaningful punches for the first couple rounds, and was still exhausted by the 8th round.

Compare that to say Foreman VS Peralta. Foreman was fighting a much more aggressive style, expending much more energy, and while still tired, was not nearly as tired as he was against Young.

I noticed you continue to ignore my points that Young had an advantage in that he was in PR for at least a week to acclimatize to the environment, while Foreman had less than a day. Oh yeah, and the hospital confirmed he was in the ICU for heat "heat prostration" which means "Overheating of the body due to extreme weather conditions.". No offense but I'd take their words over yours any day.

This is a terrible argument. Because nobody could go the distance with Foreman (aside from Ali and Young) it should be used against him. Would you rather him take his foot off the gas and let one of his KO victims hear the final bell so he can fulfil your pointless criteria?

You never answered my question. Would you say the entire Toronto 5 fiasco, an attempt to try reestablish his reputation, announcing his retirement, going through a deep depression, and losing your confidence is a healthy way of dealing with a loss? A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

You're not getting it. You can think he's overrated or you can even hate him, I don't care at all either way.

What I'm saying is your argument wasn't constructed that well to make your case convincing. I could, for instance, say "Tyson was overrated. His best wins, Holmes and Spinks, were tailor made for him. Spinks was terrified and lacked power, Holmes was inactive and old. Got beat up by a 42-1 underdog. As soon as he fought true elite opponents he lost".

Technically, all of that is true. But when you have context you know that's a very biased way of looking at his career. We know for a fact that Tyson had been slacking off towards the end of the 80's when he was dethroned. We know that the best elite opponents he faced were after a 3 years layoff with a completely different team. It doesn't completely excuse his losses, but they are factors to consider when analyzing his career.

You didn't give Foreman any wiggle room at all in your analysis even when I tried pointing it out to you. Everything boiled down to him just getting lucky, having "tailor made" opponents, having no skill relying on power, and all his losses are inexcusable. If you criticize every single boxer this way, thats one thing. But if you're heavy handed for one resume but totally understanding for another that's a glaring inconsistency.

 

It's pretty simple, you claim Frazier was enjoying his success as champion and underestimated Foreman after FOTC. I told you Foreman was just as justified to underestimate Ali who lost to two guys Foreman already beat. You didn't see it that way and that's inconsistent.

Which goes back to what I said many pages ago that you make excuses for the opponents he beat, but you grant him no allowances for his losses.

 

Good stuff G.

 

Like I said, if you understood boxing, you'd know that the big guy drains the small guy, This wasn't the case with Foreman against Young because his stamina sucked.

Foreman's state was due to floundering around in a boxing ring for 12 rounds. You don't think he'd have been hospitalized if he went to the beach instead of fighting, so sit your fanboy ass down.

The Toronto 5 was a money grab, not some deep psychology experiment. Foreman also stamped his name on a grill and collected the paycheck.

 

That, and the Toronto 5 wasn't a bad idea. Letting Ali and Cosell into the event -- that was the bad idea.