Did Nino Valadez ever deserve a shot at Rocky?

I would say yes, but only after clearing the room if the obvious better boxers like LaStarza, Charles, and Moore.

 

Yes, but he didn't stay #1 for long and historically isn't as good as at least two of those names. I've got some stuff on Valdes. He leaves me wanting more.

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Agreed. Worthy and probably rough challenger for Rocky, but certainly not a priority.

 

I am as big a Marciano fan as any on the forum and I will say that it is a shame he didn't get his shot, especially after he beat Charles. He really is the only guy left on table, as Patterson was at LHW, and the rest of the other usual names--Satterfield, Jackson, Bob Baker--just did not have the selling points of being 6'3" and #1 contender.

That being said, he always lost the #1 spot, and I do not in any way subscribe to the idiotic idea that Marciano ducked him. But yeah, it is the one intriguing fight Marciano did not get to.

 

Well said.

Did Marciano duck him? No.

Did he do enough to merit a shot? Yes. Should he have gotten a shot? I think so. But it wasn’t as if what he did absolutely DEMANDED one.

It could have been an interesting fight, at least for a while, against an end-of-career Rock.

 

Well, let's look at it from another angle.

If Rocky had fought Valdez and beaten Valdez up like he did to Moore, would you rank Rocky differently on a head-to-head list?

It's not quite the question asked by the thread, but it's close to it.

 

If he fights the more deserving Nino rather than Cockell, who had been knocked out by a middleweight a couple years before, sure it enhances his resume. And it gives us at least *some* tiny measure of what he could do against a more modern-sized heavy.

Valdez is probably the best guy he could have faced that he didn’t. No one would say he should have fought Cockell if he wasn’t on his record.

 

Pat, I totally agree. Had Rocky fought a Nino Valdes or Bob Baker or better yet, both, and beaten them (as I feel he would) there would never be that never-ending question of how he would do against the big heavyweight or why were they avoided. I also laughed at your last sentence. You are absolutely right. No one would ever be on a message board some 70 years later claiming that Rocky avoided Don Cockell.

 

I think if Marciano knew his legacy would have taken a minor hit 70 years later because he didn’t fight enough 6”2 6”3 guys he would have whooped Baker and Nino on the way out. Nino probably deserved a shot over Don but I can see why Marcianos people took that fight (test the nose and giving the British champ a shot was usually an easy money grab). Nino failed to earn a shot by not beating the best at the time Moore. If anything Harold Johnson deserved a shot over Nino or Baker but he’s never mentioned probably because of his height.

 

GP, you bring up a good point on Harold Johnson and why wasn't he in the mix. I just really looked over that era where he was making noise in that '52-'54 era. And, although he had some good scalps (Ezzard Charles, Clarence Henry, Valdes and a couple of small heavies like Jimmy Slade and Bob Satterfield), he always weighed around that 175 and was fighting both heavies and light heavies. Maybe this was to increase his earning potential, but a perusal of the Ring Ratings (year end) show that never once was he rated at heavyweight despite those wins. I think I would chalk this up to 'failure to commit'. Perhaps he just never declared himself at heavyweight. I certainly don't think he would have turned down a crack at Rocky, but as he was never noted as very exciting and was considered a cutie, he was probably never considered in Al Weill's grand scheme of things.

 

He fought all #1 contenders and a #2 in Cockell. That is remarkable. Guys like Larry Holmes, who discard belts running from a #1 contender to fight the likes of MArvis Frazier, are lauded on here. Every champ gets a voluntary, and Marciano's was his #2 contender.

 

It was a strange time. Took Archie Moore pushing in the media for a shot for a long time till they actually rated him. They only rated him probably because he made a stink about it not because he had actually cleared the division. Harold Johnson had some amazing scalps at HW. He more pushed at LHW to make his living despite beating the likes of Charles, Machen, Henry, Valdez, Satterfield and more. Not sure he thought he could take Marciano after being stopped by Moore, Satterfield, etc. He thought he could have taken Liston oddly after sparring with him and he actually was scheduled to fight him. Today he would have had a rating. Then they usually didn’t rate you in more then one division…usually

 

Yes he did, but not to the extent that he was the only viable choice, and not if it had to be at the expense of Moore.