prime Chavez vs prime DLH

I really like this matchup. I believe they were both at their best at lightweight. The Golden Boy lost to all of the in-their-prime truly great fighters he fought. (IMO Sweet Pea and JCC were not in their prime) Even though all of those fights were at welterweight I think Oscar is one small step below the best of the best. I have JCC winning a close decision but I would not be surprised if it went the other way.

 

Warlord Chavez.

 

Oscar could not endure over the distance against Chavez educated pressure. DelaHoya would probably start fast only to have JCC zero in to to the body with precision. Julio would begin to time Oscar with that good right hand

Chavez by TKO 9th. DelaHoya retires in the corner.

 

No matter who wins it would be a truly great fight.

 

Chavez on points with Oscar looking battered.

 

Oscar was just all wrong for Chavez, too much reach, height and speed for a midget like Chavez to handle. a prime Oscar always pushes Chavez’s **** in every time.

 

How is Chavez going to avoid the jab and get close enough to land his right without eating a couple fast, fluid combinations that broke his face and will when they actually did meet? Chavez was 5'7 with a 66 inch reach, DLH was 5'11 with a 73 inch reach. DLH had comparable power at the lower weight, was faster, iron chinned and held extreme physical advantages over Chavez.

 

Not entirely true, Dan.

At the lower weights, Oscar was actually seen as a bit chinny at the time. There was even a front cover of The Ring devoted to it when he won his WBO crown off Jimmi Bredahl in about April 94. Oscar was durable at welterweight but he needed that extra weight to stretch over his 5'11" to make him that resilient.

It's why boxing has weight divisions not height divisions and a reason why I don't like it when people say Tommy Hearns was a weight bully at welterweight and had all the advantages. Fact is, making 147 when you're 6'1" puts you at a big disadvantage in terms of the stamina and strength you take into a fight but that's offset against the height reach advantages. Same story here with Oscar if he has to pare that frame down to 135.

We are at a slight disadvantage in this thread because prime Julio was at 135lb, prime Oscar, for me, was 147. But if we're putting them in at 135lbs, I think Julio was more comfortable there. Also, Oscar was still inexperienced when he was fighting at 135, a pro for only two years when he took his first title at the weight whereas Julio was a seasoned veteran of 7 years, three as a world champ. If Oscar has physical advantages, Julio has all the mental aces and we all know how much of a mental discipline boxing is.

Finally, let's not use the actual fights as a barometer for how they fare prime for prime. The first time they met, Chavez was 34 and had been looking decidedly vulnerable for a few years by the time he faced De La Hoya. Drink and drugs, as well as 16 years in the ring, were taking their toll. Oscar was by now maturing into a more natural weight for him and had a year's championship experience under his belt.

If we're pitting them at their best at 140, well, Chavez spent three or four years as the consensus no1 P4P in the world when he was in his Jr Welter prime. Nothing Oscar did at that weight, not even beating Chavez himself, is going to put him into that stratosphere.

If we're pitting them at the weight Oscar was when prime - 147 - well, Oscar wins. Of course he does. So, after all that, my point is that you just can't match these two prime for prime. Their prime weights were too different.

 

Oscar hadn't yet matured from his 130/5 days, I assume we're pitting them at 140, an 89/90 Chavez still hadn't lost a step and secured his signature win there against Taylor. Oscar didn't campaign long at 140 because all the big money was at 147, that's why Whitaker moved up as soon as he won a belt and why Mosley skipped 140 entirely, 147 was where it was at. Oscar would of easily cleaned house at 140 had he stayed there in 97/8, there's a reason why Kosta Tszyu never moved up. So lets assume we have an 89/90 Chavez who was p4p number 1 in the world vs a 97/98 Oscar who was also p4p number 1 in the world. I just don't think Chavez has the tools to get the job done, especially with Oscar's jab, speed and reach.

Those jabs he was throwing at Chavez when they did fight were like left straights, Chavez had no answer for it and I don't see what a more refined Chavez off the coke is going to do. Bad style match up for Chavez is all, Chavez is still greater p4p.

 

Oscar always slowed down when the fights went longer than a few rounds. In the second half of the fight, Chavez turns it around and starts punishing Oscar to win by close decision, or, late stoppage.

 

That'd be my take on things at 140lbs, Bert. Julio was a machine there; Oscar was a work in progress towards reaching his pinnacle another 7lbs north.

If Oscar could take what he learned at welterweight back down to 140, things might get interesting but he can't, of course. And the Oscar that might have hung around at 140 until 97/98 doesn't acquire the seasoning to see him through. That's why this dream fight just isn't a dream fight. There was never a point when their weights aligned when one didn't enjoy a huge advantage over the other, whether that be experience or freshness. And the window of their weights aligning was very slim. Oscar was much bigger than Chavez and was motoring through the weight divisions.

 

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Young Oscar sparring with Chavez Oscar actually touches down at 6:20 mark

 

This.

 

Jesus, Chavez looked huge next to Oscar, Oscar was still a teenage featherweight from the looks of it.