Who Would Beat A Prime Leonard At Welterweight?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Joeywill, Mar 22, 2022.


  1. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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  2. Quick Cash

    Quick Cash Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You said there was a degree of fortune to Leonard catching Hearns. It wasn't chance that allowed Leonard to land on Tommy; it was their styles clashing together. He's always shown the ability to get to Tommy, no matter how hopelessly he was getting out-boxed. In their two meetings he was hurt both times.
     
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  3. Mark Dunham

    Mark Dunham Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He was hurt both times but by 1989, seeing Tommy in difficulty was a frequent sighting and prior to the rematch, barely survived a meeting with Kinchen

    tommy was in a similar spot to what Roy Jones experienced after Roy Jones had been knocked out and went downhill after

    In the first fight, he caught Tommy but only due to the late rounds where Tommy slowed down. Leonard got the job done but looked only marginal. Tommy showed that speed and mobility was the key to turning Leonard from sweet to beatable
     
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  4. Quick Cash

    Quick Cash Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Sure, Tommy was past his best, but Ray didn't just emerge from cryo-sleep in 1989. He, himself, was past it, having endured years of drug and alcohol abuse.

    And the stoppage wasn't the only time Ray hurt Tommy in the first fight, so saying he was only caught because he was tired is simply not true. You could say he failed to defend himself because of fatigue, which thus led to the end, but Leonard hurt him multiple times through the course of both bouts.
     
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  5. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    In the first fight being hurt was a new experience and he showed it by not clinching. He did learn later on and tied Leonard up in their rematch.
     
  6. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That's one way to look at it. Another way is Hearns beats damn near every
    welterweight in history with the exception Of the two Sugar Rays.
    Leonard was able to adjust his style , "take that chance to be great"
    find away to win against a truly formidable opponent.
    Speed wasn't that big of a deal against prime Leonard , three
    other opponents of his, May Sr. ,Price, and Benitez were noted for
    their speed, mobility and overall boxing skills...... How much did it
    help them?
    It's the total combination of mobility, speed, skills, destructive power PLUS
    very UNSUAL height and reach for a welterweight that made Hearns
    so challenging.
    But Leonard found away to win....... But that's what great fighters do.
     
  7. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well, fact is Ray's win over Duran had more to do with what Duran didn't do instead of what Leonard did do
     
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  8. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Have to agree with Mark on this one, can't find anything Leonard did better than Ray Robinson
     
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  9. Mark Dunham

    Mark Dunham Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It really isnt an accomplishment putting the hurt on someone who we had seen repeatedly staggered/badly hurt in recent fights
    Andries
    came within an inch of getting knocked out by Roldan
    Knocked out by Barkley
    Barely escaped with his life in the Kinchen fight

    so why bring up just another fighter who put the hurt on tommy when this was regularly the case?

    Moreover, ray was not nearly as inactive as you describe (CRYPTO - SLEEP). this term of yours leaves a false impression and combined with "years of drug and alcohol abuse" none of which can be confirmed and is only hear say

    If he was in such deplorable condition then why did he choose this time to return?

    In the rematch itself, you did not look closely enough. After dishing it out on Ray, both times he immediately began to droop and then Ray took over, hitting him in the noggin dozens of times. this would never have happened to Hearns from the Hagler fight. Ray would have been on the floor and I dont think he would have been as anxious to get up
     
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  10. Mark Dunham

    Mark Dunham Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ray Leonard was no Ray Robinson. Not even close

    Nor was he close to being another Benny Leonard
     
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  11. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Floyd didn’t have the offence needed to have beaten Ray at his best.

    Ray wasn’t an ATG?

    Stop being silly Mark.
     
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  12. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    He didn’t possess the confidence or the offensive arsenal at the weight.
     
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  13. Bah Lance

    Bah Lance Active Member banned Full Member

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    Duran.

    40 years later people still struggle to accept reality.
     
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  14. Mark Dunham

    Mark Dunham Well-Known Member Full Member

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    A 50 - 0 fighter lacks the confidence to step in with a 35 - 5 fighter

    This hardly seems realistic but more of a fantasy from an over zealous fan

    Floyd would drive Ray Leonard crazy. Most likely, he would follow the same blueprint that Terry Norris used so successfully in winning 12/12 rounds

    and might I say, he was scarcely touched!

    A wise man once said "Whatever Leonard could do, Floyd did better"
     
  15. Mark Dunham

    Mark Dunham Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I can accept it

    Even so, I came away with the impression that Ray was no loser

    Too bad Duran had to get so fat between fights. His lack of proper conditioning cost him in the rematch.
     
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