Wilder’s résumé is aging like a fine wine

I was right not to omit it: go back and look at some of the threads before the fight. "Joyce in 4", "Joyce in 2", "Stiverne would be lucky to go 3" and "JJJ will probably bludgeon his ass to the canvas within 90 seconds" was the consensus from the luminaries of this forum and others, who for the most part didn't rate Joyce highly back then either. It was also a considerably worse version of Stiverne, 20 lbs heavier than the mess who fought Wilder the 2nd time, plus 40+ and again inactive. Taking Joyce (who as heavy hands and a relentless work rate) 6 rounds and landing so many flush counters was massively exceeding expectations and must have been embarrassing for Wilder's unobjective critics. Many responded by writing Joyce off, which was another failure of judgement.

[url]https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/bermane-stiverne-ill-knock-joe-joyce-out-then-ill-ko-joshua.623321/[/url]

[url]https://www.*******.com/forums/boxing-forums/non-stop-boxing/827107-how-did-joyce-look-vs-stiverne[/url]

"Aging like a fine wine" was always going to result in more engagement than "has appreciated well" or something similar. They just can't help themselves.

 

Slaving away in some office/bureaucracy isn't any more meaningful than writing/theorising about boxing, probably less so. I get some income from gambling on combat sports, so it's not a waste of time even on that front.

 

@Mitch87 You went down in my estimation after you ran away from our previous discussion, Safin asked you this very reasonable question which you either wouldn't or couldn't answer:

"Please list the notable wins of:

Wach
Chisora
H. Fury
Rivas
Jennings
Huck (at heavyweight)
Haye (at heavyweight)

and then

T. Fury"

And after you claimed that Whyte's win over Wach was a "notable win", I stated:

"Wach beat K. Johnson, Hammer and Teper, which according to you makes him notable.

Why not these guys:

Szpilka beat Wach, McCline, Guinn and Adamek
Thompson beat Diaz, Bean, Guinn, T. Ibragimov, Krasniqi, Price x2 and Solis x2
McCline beat Grant, Whitaker, Briggs, Boswell and Shufford
Austin beat Golota and Williamson, drew with Whitaker, Donald and S. Ibragimov
Scott beat Thompson, Shufford and Morales, drew with Glazkov
Hammer beat Price, Teper, K. Johnson and D. Williams
Barrett beat and drew with Tua, beat Guinn, Tim Witherspoon and Jimmy Thunder"

By your own standards, if struggling with 40+ Wach is a notable win, then all of Wilder's championship wins are notable and even some before that. Sconiers beat future and former Klitschko world title challengers Ray Austin and Jameel McCline and Liakhovich beat 3 defence reigning world champion and Klitschko-conqueror Brewster, who you admit to rating as very a notable win for Wlad, even when he was blind in one eye and shot to bits. Hell why not Wilder's KO1 over Audley Harrison? He KO'd Klitschko world title challenger and Mike Tyson-conqueror Danny Williams."

We're still waiting Mitch and I suspect that's not going to change.

 

The implication of dishonesty is below the belt, especially considering the blatant dishonesty of many of these critics.

The narrative around Wilder on this forum is skewed and biased. Look up the posts before a lot of these fights I've mentioned: Wilder's victims were generally expected to be blown out, yet on many occasions they either performed well above the level expected (40+, 21 months inactive, coming off a loss Arreola going life and death with AJ conqueror Ruiz and going 12 rounds is the best example) or they won (Molina-Adamek, Duhaupas-Helenius, Szpilka-Wach, Washington-Helenius, Ortiz-Martin to a lesser degree). The consistent response was either excuse making or attempting to sweep it under the rug.

 

Ali's era was bereft of southpaws, super-heavyweights, snipers and a variety of hybrids, aside from the trend of all sports in the last 60 years toward considerable improvement. Ali had 5 losses which could have easily been 10 in the absence of A-side bias and lived much of his life disabled, due to the absurd amount of punishment he took. Most of his exaggerated popularity today is due to political factors (such as his refusal to participate in the Vietnam war) rather than his objective ability.

 

You haven't actually made a single argument there, it's quite pathetic. Your comments are meaningless in the abstract.

If Wilder has a "poor record", who are you comparing it to and are the comparisons relevant? What are all the factors you use to assess a record? Wilder is a flawed fighter (as all fighters are) but he's still one of the best and most proven of the last 15 years. Did Vitali ever beat an "A-level guy"? Did Wlad? What constitutes "A-level"? Is it relative to an era or consistent for all time?

Check the posts before Joyce-Stiverne, Ruiz-Arreola, Washington-Helenius etc. and tell me that Wilder's opponents didn't massively overperform relative to what most were predicting. And if they did overperform, then Wilder's record has aged well.

 

You remember correctly, it was on a WBO program presented by Andre Ward. They also measured the speed of Wilder's right hand, which compared favourably to Mike Tyson's hand speed. I'd seen it on youtube but I haven't been able to relocate it. Chris Andre has also mentioned it in one of his videos, so he may be the man to ask.